Richard Dormer on whether we’ll ever see Beric Dondarrion again 

The long absent Brotherhood Without Banners and their resurrected leader Beric Dondarrion are the subject of much discussion among

fans, as the band of rebels has a more significant role to play in the novels than they have so far in the show.  The Brotherhood made a splash in season 3 with a fiery duel between Beric and the Hound, but we haven’t seen anything from them since, leaving fans to wonder if the Brotherhood Without Banners storyline has been dropped entirely.

 in Esquire, Richard Dormer addressed the question of whether we would ever see Beric Dondarrion again on

Dormer told the magazine directly, “Well, they haven’t told me about it, so I don’t think so.”

That doesn’t mean the Brotherhood can be counted out, but some had speculated we might see a Beric appearance in relation to another notable character.

chatted with Dormer about the show further, with the actor admitting that he’s never watched it, not having the time.  He says of his role, “Beric was a noble character, a leader of men. Kind of like Robin Hood. So I thought, that’s how I’ll play the guy.”

, Dormer replies, “One was fire and the other was ice. Beric was one of the hottest experiences in my life. Filming in a cave, with a flaming sword, in that leather armor. It was boiling hot. It topped 40 degrees (104 degrees Fahrenheit) in the studio. Fortitude was very cold. Both productions were designed by Jemma [

] Jackson and I think they both have that epic look. She’s a genius.”

In other cast interview news, Alfie Allen talked with

about season 5, and also about a particular quirk he’s experienced in his encounters with fans.

“In terms of what may happen further on down the line and will he go back to Theon one day, I can’t really give you an answer,” Allen tells

“But I can tell you there may be some sort of light at the end of the tunnel this year — but in a very ‘Game of Thrones’ fashion.”

On a stranger note, Alfie discusses which fans are fascinated with Theon’s unfortunate maiming.

“It’s funny — when I talk to fans and talk to people about it, it’s only ever men that mention that. Women never mention it, it’s only ever guys. That’s kind of understandable, but it’s funny. I never really thought that signing an autograph and then putting a little willy next to it would make people so happy,” Allen says. “I should just make my signature a willy, and that’s it.”

For the full interview with Alfie Allen, visit

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I guess he’ll be taking the leap from Winterfell’s walls this year.

Dondarrion does not, necessarily, need to reappear “on screen” for the Brotherhood to return. You know what I mean.

Wish we also got an interview with Paul Kaye. If Paul Kaye also confirms that he hasn’t been contacted than we will be 100% sure the Brotherhood arc has been dropped. Atleast until season 6 anyway

Sometimes I really do wonder what David and Dan would have done differently if they’d had their huge sit-down with GRRM on the endgame at the beginning of the series, instead of in the middle of Season 3.

I would bet serious money that that while they were writing/shooting the Brotherhood scenes in Season 3, they were fully intending to use the Stoneheart plot. However, once they determined how to streamline Books 4 thru 7, they tossed it all. Among other things, like Yara/Asha having any major role in the plot. Really curious if we’ll ever see the BRB again, as now they just exist as one of Arya’s stepping stones. I really do think a LOT of plans changed once D&D knew where everything was headed.

The BwB’s vanishing act is simply sad. My heart is very heavy, like a stone sinking to the bottom of the Trident.

Sometimes I really do wonder what David and Dan would have done differently if they’d had their huge sit-down with GRRM on the endgame at the beginning of the series, instead of in the middle of Season 3.

I think they must have had some idea where things were going to go with that book storyline as they had Gendry jettisoned from the group and Melisandre made her cryptic comments to Arya about seeing her again. I don’t think they make those decisions without some future book knowledge about what was happening with those characters.

I’ve been of the opinion that they really should have gotten all that stuff from GRRM right off the bat (well, at least between season 1 and season 2).

Given that they went through the trouble of promoting Joe Dempsie to series regular for Series 3 and then dumping him, I had been assuming he was once intended to

bring Brienne back into contact with the Brotherhood like in the books.

That’s what I assumed for the longest time, anyway, including (embarassingly) much of the first half of Season 4.

Completely agree. I often like to compare the ASOIAF adaptation to the Harry Potter movies, filmed while the books were still ongoing. I imagine there’s a lot of things from the uber-faithful first few films that would have been jettisoned once the producers knew how irrelevant they were.

I do wonder what Richard Dormer’s contract looks like? Veteran actors sign something with an option? A flat one year contract for this show , unless plot dictates, may be odd.

Another would be Clive Russell , but then what is GRRM doing with his character?

I find it hard to believe that D&D had no idea how the series would end. Even in the first season GRRM must have told him that things like Jon’s mother would be important and that character X would be there for the final battle. They might have only talked in depth with him from season three onwards, but generally speaking they must have had some idea.

If Thoros doesn’t show up this season, Paul Kaye may end up doing media towards the end of the year for Johnathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, so maybe someone could ask him then.

Beric’s definitely out though, in this case. They would’ve had to have at least broached the topic of season 6 with him by now to know if he’s available for when they start writing the season. I was hoping for a Beric return, but I’m REALLY hoping they can still work the Brotherhood back in without him now, because it would suck to have that left as a loose end.

That’s what I assumed for the longest time, anyway.

Completely agree.I often like to compare the ASOIAF adaptation to the Harry Potter movies, filmed while the books were still ongoing. I imagine there’s a lot of things from the uber-faithful first few films that would have been jettisoned once the producers knew how irrelevant they were.

Hard to compare HP with ASOIAF. The first few HP films were in part more faithfull than the later ones just because there was less material to adapt. The Philospher Stone is tiny in comparison with the Order of the Phoenix.

Hmm. I really liked BWB and hope to see some form of them in future seasons, but I also don’t really know where the story goes after ADWD so, guess I’ll just have to wait!

Its gonna be both weird and nostalgic to see Winterfell again this year.

I know IMDB is not to be trusted, but still I felt like sharing.

Gemma Whelan is on the cast list on episodes 507, 509 and 510, all along with the Baratheon general and Stannis the Mannis. If this is true we might be getting Deepwood Motte afterall

Has Joe Dempsie been working on some other projects recently? If they are not going to use him he might as well look for other opportunities

This is the definition of inconsistency, lack of planning on the part of D&D. The power of bringing people back to life was a major revelation in S3. Now it is of no significance? Suddenly Riverlands and all its inhabitants are wiped the map of Westros!

This show is still far from becoming like “Lost” but definitely has taken a few steps in that direction.

I don’t think the TV industry does non-regular contracts where you can not use somebody for years on end and then have them back under its ambit. In the case of somebody like Dormer, he hasn’t done any work for them since late 2012 at the latest.

I find it hard to believe that D&D had no idea how the series would end. Even in the first season GRRM must have told him that things like Jon’s mother would be important and that character X would be there for the final battle. They might have only talked in depth with him from season three onwards, but generally speaking they must have had some idea.

They had some information, in a very broad sense, but getting a complete plot breakdown would undoubtedly focus them much more on what the final seasons are actually going to look like, and what’s disposable, etc. Decisions like what they were going to do with Dorne and the Ironborn would have been made at that point, for instance.

This is the definition of inconsistency, lack of planning on the part of D&D. The power of bringing people back to life was a major revelation in S3. Now it is of no significance?

the power of bringing people back to life has not been of any significance in any of the other plots in the novels to date. Showing Thoros doesn’t create any sort of narrative inconsistency if he doesn’t do anything else with it.

He wouldn’t need to if they are going to be doing the whole LS storyline. I was about to give up hope until Michelle refused to confirm or deny her return.

Probably fans guessing / trolling, by putting her along the timeline of

when she meets with Stannis in the books. Episode 7 sounds about right for Deepwood Motte or something like it, if they are ending the season with a cliffhanger for the Battle of Ice (or even if they are doing the battle itself.) But still, it’d be nice.

She’s been neither confirming nor denying her return for a few years now. That last interview was nothing new.

We saw the Riverlands in Season 3 because main characters were there. Robb, Catelyn, Jaime, Brianne, Arya, the Hound. None of them are there now. Not a single main character is there now… and that’s why we’re not seeing the Riverlands. It sounds like magic, I know; but I assure you, the Riverlands haven’t been wiped off the map, it’s just something called efficient storytelling.

Yeah, I’m not kidding. If I were adapting the books I would do the same. So, no, for example, I wouldn’t send Jaime to the Riverlands. I imagine their thinking went something like this, and I completely agree with it: “Hm, I’ve gotta introduce a whole new kingdom, Dorne, with a whole new roster of new characters who interact only with each other, five years into a seven years show… nope, sorry, I’m gonna send a main character there. Hm, Cersei sends a Kingsguard in the books to save Myrcella and plot against the Dornish… so, yeah, we’ll send Jaime, who is not only also a Kingsguard but even has a personal investment in this case (hell, Jaime considered going to Dorne for Myrcella in AFFC, if you recall.) That means his Riverlands plot is deleted, but the same story arc can be told in a different setting: Jaime trying to become Tywin; and Jaime refusing Cersei when she most needs him. The only relevant thing to tell this story is that Jaime must be far away from Cersei.

As for the resurrections, two words: Jon Snow. Melisandre visited Thoros in the show and asked him all about the resurrections. A more direct and overt link couldn’t have been made, man. Melisandre’s gonna save Jon. You’ll have your resurrection. It just won’t be Lady Zombie of Vengeance.

This tells us nothing. This question asked to Paul Kaye would be more enlightening.

I’m torn, because the timing of those appearances fits Deepwood, and I would be really happy if that ends up on the show, but it also has Davos appearing in every Stannis episode, which would mean we’re not getting any meeting between Davos and a northern lord. I was still holding out hope Umber would show up to take Manderly’s place. Oh well, it’s IMDB, so it’s all meaningless.

The BwB’s vanishing act is simply sad. My heart is very heavy, like a stone sinking to the bottom of the Trident.

Yea, but if you listen to the dialogue exchange between Thoros and Mel, you’d realize the reason it worked was because of love, he loved Beric. It won’t work for Mel w/o compassion, therefore we have to either have a romance develop betwixt the two, or Mel truly care for Jon at some level.

I just want to see the Blackfish, besides being awesome in the show, his is a disappearing act that D&D have to explain, it wouldn’t be smart intelligent writing or drama to just ignore a previous plot or its characters for the sake of expediency just to compress into 7 seasons, you are insulting fans and viewers, which HBO cherishes, since the IQ level of their viewers is definitely higher than network tv. Therefore D&D should suck up and extend to an 8th season or a 7.1-7.2 and complete the other story elements that have been shoved aside.

No, it worked for Thoros then because the return of the dragons had brought magic back. Thoros just thinks that’s why it worked.

It’s not a “disseapearing act.” The Blackfish was a supporting character. As in, he served as support for other characters… who are not alive anymore. However, I too love the Blackfish and I’m pretty sure he will be back at some point. If that wasn’t gonna be the case, they could’ve killed him at the Red Wedding. The point is, at the end of season 3, he was on the run; that is, just as he was after Jaime’s Riverrun plot. We shouldn’t known the subplot was excised from that moment. The Blackfish will probably be back whenever it is time for him to be back in TWOW. As is Walder Frey; the actor has said many times D&D told him he’d be back in the future.

The Riverlands aren’t forgotten. They will be back before the end, as will at least some of their characters (Walder 100% confirmed, remember.) They’ve taken a backseat now, for a while… “a while” which will be considerably shorter in the show, since the fourth and fifth books have been adapted into a single season. So, by this time next year we may well be talking about how great it is that Walder, the Blackfish and others are confirmed to be back for Season 6.

Hodor’s Bastard: My heart is very heavy, like a stone sinking to the bottom of the Trident.

That’s deep. For once, I wish the actor would have just said,

‘this season is going to be bigger and better than ever!’

Yea, I thought she had confirmed that she was not in season 5 when she was asked about that IMDB thing but I guess not.

Let’s not assume that last interview even happened. We only have the word of one poster here that it did and there’ve been many similar trolling attempts of late. I’d need a video of the interview before I believe that one.

I suspect they may get the Dagmer treatment: an offhand mention that the whole Brotherhood has been killed.

Even if they’re never spoken of again, they served their purpose in the show. Their betrayal added to Arya’s characterization, Melisandre’s involvement will likely pay off, and their arc resonated thematically (even the most well-meaning people can be corrupted by their good intentions).

Beric and Thoros are on Arya’s kill list in the show. That tells me that the Brotherhood will have to have some kind of resurgence in the show.

I doubt that means anything. They were added to the list because it makes sense for them to be on TV!Arya’s list:

The Brotherhood’s introducing resurrection will still be important thanks to Jon Snows expected revival.

The Riverlands aren’t forgotten. They will be back before the end, as will at least some of their characters (Walder 100% confirmed, remember.) They’ve taken a backseat now, for a while…

I hope so. To me, the BwB represents much more than a stepping stone for Arya and a mechanism for foreshadowing Red Priest possibilities. They were/are the rebellious nature of the riverlands, a bizarre vengeful troupe of determined “Robin Hoods” trying to destabilize the Clegane & Lannister brutality. Their land is burning (as we saw at the end of S4ep1) and their people are dying and starving, but they are the merciless spirit of the indigenous riverland folk. The riverlands’ tales and activities (GRRM’s comment on the savagery and ramifications of war) are indeed intriguing!!

Regardless of their leadership conundrum, I wish there had been a few more shout-outs in KL (or the Vale or the North) regarding their vigilante activities….just to point out that the riverlands hasn’t been totally forgotten. Oh well, hopefully there is a return to their cause at some point.

If I recall, then the Brotherhood had only a cameo appearance in Crows, and no appearance at all in Dragons. So it is not as if this is unexpected: B&W would have had to basically invent a plot line for the BwB in order to fit them into the season, really. (I’m not even sure which lead character could have been dragged into it, which makes it really tough to see how it could be done.)

Hodor’s Bastard: To me, the BwB represents much more than a stepping stone for Arya and a mechanism for foreshadowing Red Priest possibilities. They were/are the rebellious nature of the riverlands, a bizarre vengeful troupe of determined “Robin Hoods” trying to destabilize the Clegane & Lannister brutality

Perhaps: but, then, is that really important to the stories at hand? It’s not too relevant to the story in Season 4 (love/hate relationships), and it’s not too relevant to the story in Season 5 (striving to be something bigger). Moreover, all of this probably will become pretty moot in the books once

Aegon’s invasion upsets everything so. Oh, I suppose that the Brotherhood might well wind up throwing their lot in with Aegon: but that will take them away from the Riverland and anything that represents.

Hodor’s Bastard: I wish there had been a few more shout-outs in KL (or the Vale or the North) regarding their vigilante activities….just to point out that the riverlands hasn’t been totally forgotten.

The old “show, don’t tell” rule applies here. It would not have meant much to the TV audience without them appearing, and inserting them into the crowded plots would have been tough. It also wouldn’t have done anything to further the story: and they had a lot of story to get through as it was without putting in plot for the sake of plot!

Errrr, is Alfie saying what I think he’s saying?

What is due to happen in TWoW happens this season… Right?

Well, Peter McGinley (Anguy) has deleted his Twitter after being bombarded with questions of a s5 appearance. That leaves only one BWB member left.

There is ample evidence that they still hadn’t decided on the LS thing by July 2013. Back then, Fairley was positively giddy about Stoneheart and said on several interviews that she was waiting for the showrunners’ “decision”. Fast-forward to November/December 2013, AFTER season 4 was shot, and Fairley still expressed excitement about her future in the show in a shared panel with Lena Headey. Even later than that, in May 2014, when season 4 was already airing, she left the possibility of LS open to the press. It was only after “The Children” aired that she came up with the “there was no room for LS” stuff. If she was being honest, the decision to cut LS must have been a very late affair, probably just as season 5 scripts were being finished. But in general terms, they seem to have been ambivalent about it all along.

Of course, it could all have been a ruse and she was planned to appear in season 5 all along, and Fairley knew this, but had to be coy/evasive about it. We’ll find out soon.

Always wondered why they cast such a well known actor for the role and even more so now it appears he’s already gone! A more important question is has Patrick Malahide similarly been ‘not contacted’ ? Again, it can happen off screen but that leech scene really needs tying up. Plus you know, I refuse to give up on Euron!

Actually, there is another explanation: the ruse started well before then. After all, by making those statements about Season 5, the audience had no idea what was going to happen in Seasons 3 & 4. And if it seemed like she was sincere, well, guess what: she’s an actress!

Moreover, this is the big issue that people missing LSH, BwB, etc., have yet to cogently address: just what would the have been doing in Season 5? There is no material for them in the books. The books are bloated plot wise (and story wise!): heck, editors should have trimmed them, and the TV show definitely had to do so. So, given that there was excessive material in the first place, and less than 1% of that material included them, what should B&W have done to force them into the narrative?

TheTouchOfFrost: A more important question is has Patrick Malahide similarly been ‘not contacted’ ? Again, it can happen off screen but that leech scene really needs tying up.

It can happen off-screen. However, I wonder how many people who haven’t been binge-watching the show remember that leech. It was two years ago now.

I hope this is the case, anything to get David Bradley and Clive Russell back would be well worth the effort.

I agree, unless, as someone in another thread suggested, they use

Well, I’d answer that with: What are Brienne and Pod going to do in season 5? They are rejected by Sansa in the first episode and then what? We know they return to the Riverlands, but to what aim? We already saw them roaming around last season. If you include the BwB this season, at least you give Brienne a proper story conclusion, which she won’t have otherwise.

If it’s not tied up then it will look sloppy. Will also make me think that D&D haven’t got a long-term plan.

Moreover, this is the big issue that people missing LSH, BwB, etc., have yet to cogently address: just what would the have been doing in Season 5?There is no material for them in the books.

Call it my TrashCanMan Supposition. In the great bloated book,

, Trashy was hardly mentioned, hardly depicted directly, but he mattered immensely…he was the weirdo, the chaos factor, the fear factor…the ultimate unknown regarding the fate of many…even the main protagonist. And he really wasn’t a deus ex machina either. The reader knew he was there, and was coming eventually.

The same with the BwB. They are hardly mentioned but they are the fear and chaos factor in books 3-5 (in the riverlands and in KL)…and like I’ve mentioned many times, they have a role to play and will matter. You will acquiesce or suffer the same fate of many Freys!!

Desdemona: Well, I’d answer that with: What are Brienne and Pod going to do in season 5?

That is a completely separate question. After all, those two do not interact with the missing characters in question until their final pages in Brienne’s 8th and final chapter. And what makes you think that they’ll meet up with Sansa and be dismissed right away? If they are dismissed, what makes you think that they will give up on getting her out of the Vale?

TheTouchOfFrost: If it’s not tied up then it will look sloppy. Will also make me think that D&D haven’t got a long-term plan.

As most of the audience has forgotten this loose-thread by now, that would not be the case. People cannot remember major socioeconomic issues that happen in the spring during autumn elections: why in the world would they remember trivial details about a TV show two years later?

But, as members of it themselves, D&D are well aware of the book fanbase. They will address the leeches when that storyline has an impact on the main characters again. People do not have such short memories (as someone pointed out above, the collective intelligence of this audience is higher than average); but if they do, all they need to do is watch the first two minutes of the episode in which these characters are reintroduced. Other shows I have watched on “lesser” networks have brought back characters and storylines after 4 seasons. It’s not that big a deal, especially for this show and audience. I have faith in D&D.

Well if you’re happy to let standards slip then fair enough. I think a great show shouldn’t neglect the smaller details that contribute to it’s quality.

Hodor’s Bastard: They are hardly mentioned but they are the fear and chaos factor in books 3-5 (in the riverlands and in KL)…a

I must admit, I barely remember them coming up. A quick search of my ebook shows that people do discuss them around Jaime and Brienne a handful of times, although neither seems to take the Brotherhood (which itself is never named!) very seriously even if others do worry about them. I cannot find them in any of the Cersei chapters (searching for “Brotherhood,” “Beric,” “Dondarion” and “Thoros”), so they received scant attention there. (There are 29 references in total to them in the Crows book: so, it’s not up there with finding Sansa or framing Margaery!)

But, regardless, this is television: things must be

: the names won’t mean anything to most of the viewers. And if they are going to be shown, then they have to further the plot and they have to further the story for at least one lead character. I’m just not sure how that could have been done: just showing them to add “fear” would be unnecessary (they’ve got plenty of other scary things) and probably just irk the audience when it didn’t lead to anything.

They will address the leeches when that storyline has an impact on the main characters again.

I’m going through leech and Thoros withdrawal. I need my fix!

Tristifer, I miss Anguy. Hope Tristifer makes an appearance this season.

Ashara D: People do not have such short memories (as someone pointed out above, the collective intelligence of this audience is higher than average);

I’m an academic: trust me, I know how short people’s memories are! If you give college seniors tests that they took their freshman year, they do no better than do people who never took the class:

they go on to major in the topic. It’s been well-documented how “burning” sociopolitical issues in April are non-issues come elections in November.

Moreover, there really is no “collective” here: the vast majority of viewers of any TV show watch it, watch the next episode, watch the next episode, etc. They don’t discuss it, they don’t opine about it on the Internet, they don’t read about it on the Internet. Before you object, ask yourself: for how many of the TV shows you watch or books that you read do you do this? Then remember: that’s probably one or two more than most people. (This is why they do the “previously on SHOW X” on serial like this or Battlestar Galactica or Lost: it only takes small reminders to jog peoples’ memories, but those memories

As for the book fan base, B&W know better than to cater too much to us. History has proved repeatedly that we (collectively) have terrible judgement: too many of us like the books for very different reasons than do the bulk of people watching the show, or even the bulk of book readers. You can say that it was just Tolkien fans or just Harry Potter fans or whatever you wish: but it will be a long time (if ever) before TV and Hollywood take fans’ opinions too seriously. (I would write “again” but I don’t know that they ever did.)

TheTouchOfFrost: I think a great show shouldn’t neglect the smaller details that contribute to it’s quality.

heh, small details contribute to a TV show’s quality in the same way that coins in your furniture contribute to your wealth! It’s the big details that cause shows to get that nice combination of big viewership and high critical acclaim.

OMG! I know many of you probably already seen this GoT trailer before but I just saw it and was laughing out loud… So funny!

Good point, Red Wedding was probably the biggest event on the show (according to D&D themselves) but then its aftermath, survivors, people involved and responsible, were all abandoned!

Instead of characters and locations already invested in, we have to go to a new place, Dorne, which its so important that we havnt seen it in 4 years!

From a storytelling point of view this is illogical.

So you are just mainly saying that hey average viewer doesnt know or care where Riverlands is or who was that guy that killed Robb or who was the guy with flaming sword etc, the average viewer wants to see the dragon girl naked and some cool and gruesome action scene and then maybe an orgy! Right?

And you defend making the show just appeal to this generally not caring, forgetful masses of audience?

Doesnt sound like a very academic stance!

Hey, did you hear that GRRM is writing a new BDSM book? It’s called

People who make youtube videos really know which images to pick for their thumbnails don’t they? That Emilia…

Wimsey: I’m an academic: trust me, I know how short people’s memories are!If you give college seniors tests that they took their freshman year, they do no better than do people who never took the class:

they go on to major in the topic.It’s been well-documented how “burning” sociopolitical issues in April are non-issues come elections in November.

Moreover, there really is no “collective” here: the vast majority of viewers of any TV show watch it, watch the next episode, watch the next episode, etc.They don’t discuss it, they don’t opine about it on the Internet, they don’t read about it on the Internet.Before you object, ask yourself: for how many of the TV shows you watch or books that you read do you do this?Then remember: that’s probably one or two more than most people.(This is why they do the “previously on SHOW X” on serial like this or Battlestar Galactica or Lost: it only takes small reminders to jog peoples’ memories, but those memories

As for the book fan base, B&W know better than to cater too much to us.History has proved repeatedly that we (collectively) have terrible judgement: too many of us like the books for very different reasons than do the bulk of people watching the show, or even the bulk of book readers.You can say that it was just Tolkien fans or just Harry Potter fans or whatever you wish: but it will be a long time (if ever) before TV and Hollywood take fans’ opinions too seriously.(I would write “again” but I don’t know that they ever did.)

heh, small details contribute to a TV show’s quality in the same way that coins in your furniture contribute to your wealth!It’s the big details that cause shows to get that nice combination of big viewership and high critical acclaim.

Hmmm…given your stated profession and my experience with its members, I am not surprised that this is your attitude. My experience is atypical, I’m sure.

That said, it appears that you basically agree with my premise that memory length doesn’t matter as the showrunners use the “Previously on” segment to reacquaint viewers with the storylines covered in the following episode. Short or long, viewers’ memories are jogged. The question of memory length, then, becomes academic (A-haaaaaa! Get it?).

As a series of books and/or tv shows, it is my experience that this particular story seems to get a lot more discussion than the average, both on and off of the Internet. Really, I am struggling to come up with a valid comparison. What other epic series of books has been turned into one of the (if not THE) biggest television experiences in history? Comparisons to such works turned into films have limited utility. And I would also argue that there is a collective intelligence in the community of GoT watchers as GoT is one of the most complex stories ever told. And I happen to think that SF/Fantasy readers in general possess higher-than-average intelligence. Although I had an American Literature professor once tell me that SF/Fantasy was not a valid topic for me to focus on in his Modern American Literature class, so I may be dead wrong.

As for my point about D&D being members of the book fanbase: in their interviews, D&D seem to respect the source material as fans, not just adapters. They understand the readers’ love for some of the tertiary characters, but not to the detriment of the adaptation. Of course they’re not going to listen to every whiney Moon Boy lover if the lunar one in particular will not serve a purpose going forward. But they are also going to keep the possible later appearance of a LSH-type character close to the vest until the time that either 1) she re-enters the story in a meaningful way, or 2) her storyline passes her character’s usefulness to the story as a whole and she is jettisoned from the adaptation. I would expect nothing less from film professionals who also have an intimate connection to this work as a long-running

story in another medium. In short, they are doing their jobs, but with a heart. (Happy Valentine’s Day, all!)

I believe that we agree more than we disagree, my black-robed and betasseled friend! Love to read your analyses. They break up the penis chatter from Rygar. Cheers!

But think, now we got more people of color, and sand snakes aswell!

Not a chance. D&D seem to hate the Riverlands and its storylines.

So she just took a note and learned how to do it on her own? Lets see if it even happens as you and others suggest.

We saw the Riverlands in Season 3 because main characters were there. Robb, Catelyn, Jaime, Brianne, Arya, the Hound. None of them are there now. Not a single main character is there now… and that’s why we’re not seeing the Riverlands. It sounds like magic, I know; but I assure you, the Riverlands haven’t been wiped off the map, it’s just something called efficient storytelling.

Yeah, I’m not kidding. If I were adapting the books I would do the same. So, no, for example, I wouldn’t send Jaime to the Riverlands. I imagine their thinking went something like this, and I completely agree with it: “Hm, I’ve gotta introduce a whole new kingdom, Dorne, with a whole new roster of new characters who interact only with each other, five years into a seven years show… nope, sorry, I’m gonna send a main character there. Hm, Cersei sends a Kingsguard in the books to save Myrcella and plot against the Dornish… so, yeah, we’ll send Jaime, who is not only also a Kingsguard but even has a personal investment in this case (hell, Jaime considered going to Dorne for Myrcella in AFFC, if you recall.) That means his Riverlands plot is deleted, but the same story arc can be told in a different setting: Jaime trying to become Tywin; and Jaime refusing Cersei when she most needs him. The only relevant thing to tell this story is that Jaime must be far away from Cersei.

I completely agree with all this. I wish more people could look at the adaption from this rather than blaming every change on D&D personal preference for different characters and plots.

We will get back to the riverlands when something actually happens there. It might not be until season 6.

I’ve always considered the Riverlands element as just symbolic of the nobles “fighting over trifles” while remaining ignorant of the massive shitload about to be dropped from above and showing the devastation and effect on the small folk being caught up the collateral damage. Important to the story as setting the backdrop in the middle of the story but it may not be any more significant than bringing into focus the main players’ ignorance of “Winter is Coming” in the great scheme of things…

…at least not until major events converge on central and southern Westeros later as the signs suggest.

I hope they managed to do a good job with Theon’s arc, even though it looks like it could be completely different from the books (which, in this case, is bad).

This is an example of poor writing or at least bad planning ahead. Why introduce them if you don’t plan on using them??? I understand that without Lady Stoneheart they are not that important, but then why introduce them in the show at all?? I don’t buy the resurrection idea, they could have had Melissandre do it somehow and I don’t even think that it will be used again (as many do about some unnamed character). They spent a lot of time on this arc, they alsa had the Blackfish…. time that could have been used for Dorne for example if they really want to expand their part or why not all the foreshadowing that’s so masterfully done in the books?

Sean C.: I’ve been of the opinion that they really should have gotten all that stuff from GRRM right off the bat (well, at least between season 1 and season 2).

D&D have known the whole ‘broad stroke’ story for a long long time. They had discussions with George before season 1 about the whole story.

Before season 2 David and Dan were in Santa Fe for like a week for a long meeting.

The before season 3 David, Dan and Bryan were in Santa Fe for , it seems a set of long meetings. This must have been an interesting one because they may have been talking to GRRM about where they were taking things.

Must have been some discussions before season 4 because we have that one interview where George seems a little concerned about not getting two seasons out of Feast and Dance and where he mentioned the movie deal.

At comic con he made clear “the books were the books and the show was the show” , it was not clear if that a rationalization on his part.

How do you know Brienne won’t have a proper story conclusion this season without the BwB? We don’t know what happens to her in TWOW or what D&D may cook up on their own. D&D are not stupid. They won’t have Brienne roaming around the Riverlands for a whole season and not even have a climax or a cliffhanger.

To be fair, there is evidence of Brienne and Pod in the Riverlands. The trailer shows them galloping on horses, passing by an inn, in a place that could only be the Riverlands. Well, I guess it could be the Crownlands or the North but… my point is, it’s Ireland. Lots of trees and vegetation. The Vale is Iceland.

If we’re using that as an analogy, a lot of people enjoy the surprise of finding money they didn’t realise they had either down the side of their sofa or finding a £5 (insert your own countries’ equivalent!) on the street. Even though it’s not as much as the amount you know you’ve got in your bank account, it still has value (psychologically) even if it’s not a massive amount monetarily

Hey, did you hear that GRRM is writing a new BDSM book? It’s called

Really? Only 50….? I thought it’d swelled to 1,000 Shades and 1. GRRM always does things bigger, better, nastier, nicer, hotter, colder….. until his typewriter bleeds. That’s the kinda guy the man is. Don’t forget to watch out for his alternative history of Targaryens and their dragons. According to rumour, it’s entitled “Burn, Baby, Burn (The Cold Facts, Jack)”. It’s one of those hommage things, written from the perspective of a pyromancer named Spitflame (son of Spitfire, son of Phelmfyre….. You know how it goes).

Alfie Allen’s signing autographs with a little dick? There is nothing left to be said apart from, we kinda knew that already. Mind you, as he’s Ironborn, sooner or later, would it not rust away….? And not thru use.

And so to the BwB….. No Beric? Passing his ‘gift’ on, does it really need to be on-screen? The outcome ought to be shown. Think Checkov’s Gun.

But hold, there is more. BwB itself, we’ve seen them, we spent time with them. Another Checkov’s Gun.

Jaime heading to another part of the map, in the opposite direction to where he ought to be going, also changes Brienne’s arc. (Mustn’t lose Pod here.) She must intersect with BwB during the season. Why? D&D’d have her aimlessly wandering here and there with no resolution? DUMB! Yet another Checkov’s Gun.

Add Blackish to the mix as well. Last seen, heading outside for a piss… Damn long time for a piss, eh? Or just a bad case of piss-poor booze served up by House Grumpy causing…. Hmmmm? Wasn’t anyone else affected?

The arsenal is getting more full with these, and they must go off sometime.

would she attempt it anyway to save AA? If she thinks it won’t work she might not, so does that mean she attempts it, believing it will work, because she feels something for John? Would the show go that far as to give them some sort of twisted love story?

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