The first reviews of Game of Thrones season 5 are in! 

It’s been an exciting day, with the red carpet premiere of

taking over the Tower of London. The cast showed up in style and have headed off to the after-party, and the critics are now dropping the first reviews of season five.

Two of the reviews are very light on spoilers, but those wishing to remain Unsullied may wish to avoid reviews altogether. Each review will be marked for spoiler content (or lack thereof).

, noting that the “strongest stories can be told in whispers.” The review is very light on spoilers- almost free of them- but for confirming the opening scene of the episode, one already known to most savvy fans. According to critic Neil Midgley , there’s a “magnificent set-piece that surely heralds a difficult season ahead” for Daenerys. Hmmm. Just hmmm.

hales it as a “well-paced, intriguing opening episode.” Sarah Hughes calls the premiere episode a “slow-burner” and says, “All the elements that have made

notorious, from copious nudity to moments of unexpected violence, were present but this was a notably confident series opener, one which mixed humour and pace to demonstrate how secure Benioff and Weiss now are in this world – and how happy they are to take risks.” (Spoiler-free)

getting more specific about the plot details and containing spoilers, including confirming the return of a minor character. All in all, The Telegraph says the premiere episode “spins a whole new web of political intrigue, meticulously setting the scene, and generally eschewing any of the blood-splattered gore we’ve come to expect from later installments.”

‘s review is in, containing light spoilers such as telling us exactly what that magnificent setpiece in Dany’s storyline is.

says that in the premiere, “There weren’t many new introductions, but several old characters are revealing new sides.”

Spoiler buttons are functional using shortcode [spoiler] Insert spoiler here [/spoiler] to blur comments. If you do NOT want to be spoiled, click the "Hide" Button before proceeding!

The interesting bit from the Telegraph review is the mention of a character called

Yezza (sic) In a very different role from his book counterpart. It seems like they’re setting him up as a Meereen big bad for the season

One reviewer says that an Unsullied in Meereen is named “White Rat”, but we know Stalwart Shield is in this season. I suspect he may have misheard and got confused with some other Unsullied also spoken of in the episode.

I’m annoyed about that one reviewer who said he laughed at the funeral stones over Tywin’s eyes….okay, they’ve had those since Season 1 when Jon Arryn died, and they were VERY prominent when Joffrey’s corpse was laying in state last season….do they really have such poor attention spans that they can’t recall this is a cultural thing they do?

Well they said that Melisandre burns that pyre in the first episode

…Spoiler text isn’t working for me, how do I do that again?

The Daily Telegraph review is ridiculously specific and spoilery and talks about ‘Here’s what we want to discuss’ – when the viewer won’t see it for weeks.

I will not read those! … – Maybe just a littke? -.-

Nope. He’s called White Rat in the series. Cue purist rage.

So Lancel’s show version is virtually the same as the books. Lucky him!

No mention of Illyrio at all, which further backs up my theory that they completely cut him. Good job setting up something from S1 to abandon it now.

If he was going to be in ANY episode, it’d have been this one.

Nothing happens in premiere that wasn’t already expected and confirmed :/

Name probably changed between casting and filming. Probably decided that all Unsullied will have animal+color names to keep it clear.

Take it easy broseph, i’m pretty sure they weren’t planning on cutting him out back in season 1.

I think Yezzan is probably taking some of Xaro’s book role as the one to really first declare war on Dany, and maybe some of the Green Grace’s role, as a voice for Meereenese conservative elements.

The name was a guess based on the books. The casting call didn’t give a name, just his role.

How do you know he mentions him? Haven’t seen anything like that in any review.

I really don’t want to complain too much about this when we’ve got Lancel and Kevan back, but to go to his house and then to not have him there is just really weird.

S1 is too long ago to be a setup for anything now. The Ilyrio gun was hung and fired then and there on the very first episode: they obviously are free to use him again, but he does not represent some sort of loose end.

That written, Ilyrio is such a minor character that if they did bring him back, then the reviews would not mention him. Anybody who has not very recently binge-watchef the show will not remember him. (I do not think that he appeared after episode 1, save for Arya’s brief sighting of him.)

Season one was years ago, you can’t expect the show to use every detail. This isn’t a 2-3 hour long movie, the show will run the better part of a decade and

The thing is, many reviewers have read the books. Actually if you use last season as an example, most reviewers are book readers. So they would notice

Roger Allam was in a play during the whole filming period in Croatia, and thus unavailable.

LOL I just saw the reply. Didn’t know you were at the premiere cosca

It’s better than The Rat Cook. That would have been too much LOL

Well, do tell, then. How does he mention him? Spoil us! Anything particularly interesting and noteworthy from the rest of the episode?

As long as you spoiler tag it, I’m sure the impatiemts among us would like to hear some juicy spoilers.

How come Illyrio is suddenly the most important character in A Song Of Ice and Fire?!

They could’ve used him for an interior scene shot in Belfast.

Tell us more! About the entire episode! (Starting with the title sequence: new locations?)

Hardly. He is a minor character in the books, too. General readers do not remember incidental characters for long. Again, what fans retain, and what the vast majority of readers/viewers retain are not the same.

I think if he’s namechecked and they’re at his place, he probably has some larger role to play in future seasons but as this would have just been a cameo, they wrote around him not being there.

We know that Allam was involved in another project at the time, there was most likely an actor availability issue which is always a risk you run with the actors you don’t have under contract.

Then there’s really no point in mentioning him at all, is there. His presence there is needed to tie back to season 1 and the Dany connection he and Varys have. Really, what the fuck are these people thinking?

Unless the actor was in an AIR-TIGHT CONTRACT prohibiting him from appearing in five minutes of one episode, nothing else really excuses it. It’s sloppy writing and lack of care, broseph.

Dutch maester: Tell us more! About the entire episode! (Starting with the title sequence: new locations?)

None as far as I could tell. The Vale and Pentos made a return

He’s the father of the next king of Westeros. How about a little respect?!?!

Renly’s Peach: His presence there is needed to tie back to season 1 and the Dany connection he and Varys have.

Which is why they mentioned him…also, Varys explicitly says that Illyrio was in on the plot.

But something similar? A reference to a little brother? Or just the part of her children?

He was in a play in London. People in the theatre generally can’t fly to foreign countries to film there, and he may not have wanted to.

So is the flashback a cold open or is it just the first scene after the title sequence?

Did they redo Winterfell or is it still just a smokey ruin?

Come on… You haven’t even seen the episode yet and talk about “sloppy writing and lack of care”, calm down.

Hey Cosca, could you possibly give us a summary of what you remember in spoiler tags?

Not really: it has no bearing or impact on the story or the plot. Indeed, forcing incidental character back into the narrative can dilute both story and plot!

Does Kevan make an appearance on the first episode?

Is the Sansa scene just them watching Robyn fight poorly or are any future actions discussed?

Does Kevan say anything or is he just hanging with Lancel?

Is the shot of Rhaegal firing flames at the camera from the trailer what we see here or is it something different?

It seems like they mention his name though. To me this means that they tried to have

Illyrio back but it didn’t fit Roger Allam’s schedule. This bodes well for future seasons though for Illyrio/Allam fans :-]

With a Bolton sigil where the Stark one was.

Lucy, There was nothing related to brothers at all.

You know what let me get D&D on the phone, they should really consider you as a writer for next season, NOT! You obviously have no idea what actually goes into making this show, which is shown by the way you critizise them for such a tiny little detail.

Yes! He has a short, nice scene with Cersei.

Does Varys bring him up at random? Does he mention where he is? Or does Tyrion ask anything at all about him? (I’m curious how this conversation would go)

So she just tells her about the younger queen and her kids?

Where does Tyrion’s appearance end? Just with the “who said anything about him?” Or does it go longer than that?

Is Anya Waynwood in the Vale scene or in it just Yohn Royce? Is that the only Vale scene?

God dammit. Right in the ****ing feels :-[. Avenge them

It does not mean that at all. It dies not mean that they did not, either. It means nothing at all as both ideas allow for what happened.

Are you serious? The entire plot for a major character is about to change completely. To casual show-only viewers, getting the Varys-Dany connection out the blue is kind of a shock, I’d imagine. It’d make SLIGHTLY more sense to have Illyrio be seen again and reestablish that connection. Since, you know.. he was a major part of Dany’s beginning. And a mysterious/powerful figure Arya sees again at King’s Landing, which would have been clarified, uh, now. “Hey Tyrion welcome to my friend Illyrio’s place, oh by the way he’s not here.” Casual people are gonna be like, “who???”

But whatever; it’s not like this is the biggest sin they’ve made thus far.. Nor the last.

He’s probably going to mention that to Tyrion. Problem solved… oh wait it was never a PROBLEM!

It does not mean that at all.It dies not mean that they did not, either.It means nothing at all as both ideas allow for what happened.

Um what? Lol i just found your sentence confusing. I said it “could” mean that. Not that it “does”. From what we know of

Roger Allam’s schedule he was fully booked so that seems like a very viable explanation as to why he did not return. They could have easily not mentioned Illyrio’s name at all but chose to do so anyway.

This gives me some hope for the character’s future.

You cannot rule him out. Especially since we know both

Kevan and Lancel and even Jaqen’s face are making returns.

I can hear Wimsey right now. Because this is totally what he’ll say:

General readers do not remember incidental characters for long. Again, what fans retain, and what the vast majority of readers/viewers retain are not the same.

Was not in the episode. In fact, I don’t even recall him being mentioned.

There are two Sansa scenes. In the first, they watch him fight poorly, then LF mentions that he is leaving Robin in Lord Royce’s care. The second scene, LF and Sansa are in a carriage talking about trust, and LF mentions they’ll be going far away from Cersei Lannister’s grasp

Kevan talks to Cersei for a scene. He talks a bit about Tywin, and complains about his sons fanaticism.

I don’t believe that shot is there. Both Rhaegal and Viserion (who are referred to by name by Dany in this episode) shoot flames at Dany and scare her off though

small council after Aegon takes kingslanding? That would be a good way to bring him back and reveal his motivation at the same time. Sandsnakes, varys, illyrio, qyburn (theres a theory that qyburn is really working for dorne), half the council is already in place lol. Well in the books at least. All we need is Trystane to be Aegon

The viewers do not remember Ilyrio unless they just binge-watched the show: and as he badically does not reappear after the first episode, many of the binge-watchers will have forgotten him. Thus, he cannot provide a connection for the typical viewer. You are making the classic fan mistake of assuming that your favorite series is an exception to the rules of human memory: but it never is.

Regardless, Illyrio’s role can be done by Varys alone not simply just as well, but probably better. The viewers know him, they have to wonder what exactly his game is, and many of them will think: “ah, that makes sense: I should have seen it coming!”

Roger Allam’s schedule was fully booked which is a viable reason as to why he might not be returning in season 5. However, now that we know Varys mentions his name, this leaves the door open for a return by him in a future season.

Many viewers do not remember who Kevan or Lancel are. And yet they are returning. That proves nothing

Two final questions: are there any other scenes at the Wall besides the ones with Stannis on top of the Wall,

At last the three dragons are named on-screen. Drogon in 4×10, and now Rhaegal and Viserion in 5×01. It was always a weird choice for me that they didn’t have a short naming scene im the Red Waste or Qarth.

All of those characters were much more prominent in the narrative than Illyrio, who was in only one episode, really. One of them actually does have a part in the plot that is pretty unique, too.

Can you tell us about the Stannis scenes? What is the dialogue between him and Jon like? Does he offer him Winterfell? Does he talk about the Others?

Nobody likes a brown-noser, kid. You don’t have to make up excuses to defend this show blindly. It’s an oversight, whether you agree with me or not — it’s an oversight. If he wasn’t important, then he wouldn’t have been included in the KL scene with Varys or even mentioned by name this season.

This is why the “oh, nobody will remember him” excuse is bullshit. If they’re bringing back KEVAN, who was a super minor background character in the show, they could have brought back Illyrio.

And if he really was unable to do it because of a play, then it’s a damn shame all the same.

So Illyrio sent his infant son to Dorne? And Varys sneaks into his bedchamber every week to dye his hair dark? Sounds like a plan.

Yeah, I was baffled at the writers’ saying they could never work that in. Literally any time Dany meets someone new you could bring that subject up. And when they finally did name Drogon, it was dropped in almost as an afterthought.

Oh, sorry, defense mode on. Take it down a few notches (to myself).

Ok then, please explain to me then how Rorge and Biter returned? Surely Illyrio is on the same level as them in regards to prominence

Nobody likes a brown-noser, kid. You don’t have to make up excuses to defend this show blindly. It’s an oversight, whether you agree with me or not — it’s an oversight. If he wasn’t important, then he wouldn’t have been included in the KL scene with Varys or even mentioned by now this season.

This is why the “oh, nobody will remember him” excuse is bullshit. If they’re bringing back KEVAN, who was a super minor background character in the show, they could have brought back Illyrio.

And if he really was unable to do it because of a play, then it’d a damn shame all the same.

You know when a new season is about to begins when you seee Renly’s Peach whining.

I’ll post an episode summary in a while. Sorry, too many questions.

It proves that such characters cannot provide plot links, which was my point. The show would be foolish to try to use them in this way without reintroduction. As one of them will play an imprtant role in the plot driving a lead character’s story, he almost will be providing the audience of some reminder of who he was. (He also was in several episodes over 2 seasons, so reminding viewers of who he is will be both simpler and easier than it would be for Illyrio.)

If people do not remember who a character is then those people do not really pay attention to the show. They are such casual viewers that they will most likely not even care who he is and if they really care they can google it. All the real fans will remember him and they are the ones who are bothered by his absence more than the casual viewers are bothered by not remembering who he is. Im pretty sure recasting the mountain or Daario is more confusing than bringing back the guy with the beard from Dany’s wedding.

Did they? I missed that. Was it supposed to be relevant who they were? (I cannot think so: I would remeber being critical of that.)

In season two there were two particular scenes which featured Drogon prominently while Dany and Doreah talked about dragons, first in the Red Waste and then in Xaro’s palace; yet even Drogon went unnamed until the latest aired episode. Just weird.

are we really having an argument over Illyrio….. why…..

this is why GOT discussions just turn to shit…. *sigh*

I guess I’ll do the smart thing and stop coming to these comment sections as it will ruin another season for me with the constant bitching over nothing

It proves that such characters cannot provide plot links, which was my point.The show would be foolish to try to use them in this way without reintroduction.As one of them will play an imprtant role in the plot driving a lead character’s story, he almost will be providing the audience of some reminder of who he was.(He also was in several episodes over 2 seasons, so reminding viewers of who he is will be both simpler and easier than it would be for Illyrio.)

Again Rorge and Biter made returns. I assume you are not referring to them in this post. I think it’s foolish to rule out a possible Illyrio return to the series at some point.

This is the first pre-season/season I’m spending on this website. Pretty sure you don’t know me, buddy.

Dorne is a pretty safe place to be. Its insulated from the warring kingdoms. Its definitely safer than roaming the free cities with a couple of bodyguards. And aero hotah moonlights as a stylist.

Did they?I missed that.Was it supposed to be relevant who they were?(I cannot think so: I would remeber being critical of that.)

They were killed by Sandor and Arya last season. Biter bit Sandor on the kneck lol. That’s why I’m not ruling out Illyrio

Mance is burned alive, and Jon shoots him so he doesn’t suffer. This is the last scene of E1.

finds both Shae and Tywin’s bodies? Obviously Tywin is returning, but we’ve heard nothing of Shae.

Tywin’s funeral? Or is the funeral off screen? Does the show in any way make the connection that he’s Tywin’s brother, or mention where Kevan has been since season 2?

Oops! Sorry, cosca. Just saw the post that said you will just write a summary instead of answering further questions.

I have my criticisms of the show, but it pisses me off when people make such an effort to complain about something that is such a minor thing.

If they bother justifying it at all (a remote possibility; it’s not really necessary, except for us obsessives), I’d say they’ll change it up so that Kevan had gone to be castellan at Casterly Rock after the Blackwater, when Tywin decided to stay in King’s Landing and rule as Hand, and he’s been there ever since, with his son, wounded after the battle.

This is the first pre-season/season I’m spending on this website. Pretty sure you don’t know me, buddy.

Sorry, mate. I confused you with another irrational book purist.

If they bother justifying it, I’d say they’ll change it up so that Kevan had gone to be castellan at Casterly Rock after the Blackwater, when Tywin decided to stay in King’s Landing and rule as Hand, and he’s been there ever since, with his son, wounded after the battle.

This is really what I’m hoping for. Since they’ve bothered to bring Kevan back, I doubt it’s for a blink-and-you-miss-him role. I hope they fully explain who he is and what he’s been doing, and why he’s returned to the capital (if it’s not already apparent from the unexpected death in the family.)

Simple tests disprove that. How much you pay attention at the time had little to do with long term retention. We retain things only if we go over them constantly (as fans do).

Here is the classic example. Take three groups of first year university students from this time in 2012. Group A and B are taking a lower level class. Group C is not. Group A are those that go on to major in this topic. Group B are those that go on to major in something else.

Fast-forward to 2015. Give the final exam to all three groups. Group A does as well or better than they did in 2012. Group B and Group C just as badly as one another: and what grade the Group B students got barely predicts variation in how they do 3 years later.

If people cannot retain things that they

3 years later, then clearly how much you pay attention to anything now has no bearing on what you remember in 2018. What does matter is how often you think about it over the next three years.

Given that the audience watching this show consists of people who have been doing a lot of other stuff over the last 4 years, we cannot expect them to remember single-episode characters now.

Illyrio return this season. Does it ruin the season? Ofcourse not. I’m a fan of Roger Allam and his character and I wanted to see him again. Nothing wrong with that. I do think we will see him come back sometime in the future :-]

Yeah that would be the perfect explanation. Either that or was out commanding some of the Lannister armies.

Actually re-reading the rather poor telegraph review, no surprises as the DT has gone from a pretty good (albeit very right wing spun) news source to a glorified tabloid over the past few years, Id say that it

doesn’t say Yezza (sic) is in; it just makes some spurious unsubstantiated connections which are probably based on the authors presumptions rather than any remote evidence whatsoever.

Wanting consistency and thinks to actually make sense makes me a book purist now. Go figure. This place never changes.

Without Aegon Blackfyre, I don’t have much use for him.

The “previously on segment” does a lot to help that situation. If you recall, last season they used the “previously on” to reference Jorah’s betrayal back in season 1.

I’m not saying you are wrong that it’s hard for people to retain information. But what I am saying is that your argument is a little flawed as the show has found ways to deal with these issues in the past.

Ugh…don’t remind me how they returned… :/ One of the silliest scenes last season.

Kevan will be in episode 10, as reported by his very fansite through secret but trusted sources. In fact, his appearance in episode 10 was the only one confirmed. The leaked script summary, if we trusted it (which we did after the trailer aired and matched a lot of it), confirmed Kevan would be back in episode 1 as well.

Will he have any other episodes? I don’t know; is there a need? His role is not much larger in the books. He refuses Cersei, goes away for the whole of AFFC, and comes back in the end. In the compressed terms of the show, that could very well translate to this scene in episode 1, another one in which he goes away in episode 2 or 3, and a final apperance of multiple scenes in episode 10 (or maybe 8 through 10, depending on how quickly they set up and resolve Cersei’s climax.)

NEVERMIND THAT TYRION EVEN MENTIONED DORANS OTHER SON IN SEASON 2…

AND JON TELLING MANCE HES THE FIRST ONE TO UNITE THE WILDLING CLANS DESPITE YGRITTE’S STORIES ABOUT THE OTHER KINGS-BEYOND-THE-WALL

PLOT CONSISTENCY?? NAH WE JUST NEED CONSISTENT AWESOME BRUH!!!!

I am aware of such studies but also feel that watching a show for entertainment impacts memory differently than studying things especially considering how college students will never think about Intro to Geology after they get the credits for it. Im sure people think about the show they choose to watch for entertainment a lot more. I know lots of people who are casual viewers and I asked them if they remember Illyrio 8 out of 10 say no. But when I ask do you remember the guy with he beard at Danys wedding from the mansion most of them remember him. So mentioning him but not having him on screen doesnt make sense.

Hodor’s Bastard: Ugh…don’t remind me how they returned… :/ One of the silliest scenes last season.

But they did decide to bring them back when they could have easily cut them. Not ruling out Illyrio returning until I at least see season 6

When you said plot consistency it made me think about cake recipes. I don’t know why but I felt I had to share that.

It’s little things like this that make me dislike the show

Not including the term valonqar or having Illyrio appear in Pentos just frustrates me. Yeah they’re minor things but they play important parts to the story. Cersei’s hatred for Tyrion is strongly due to the term valonqar and taking that away from the show viewers just seems like a mistake. And Illyrio would show the viewers that Varys and him have planned Daenery’s return for years. :/

RAYMOND REDBEARD, BAEL THE BARD, THE HORNLORD! #NOONEUNDERSTAAAANDS

Mentioned little things upsetting you but yet you failed to mention “your sister”. For shame :p.

I would guess, then, that episode 502 will bring:

7. Winterfell (they’ve never not introduced a major location in one of the first two episodes)

1ST TIME ANYONES EVER ACCUSED ME OF THAT I MUST BE SLIPPING!!!

Can someone confirm whether the guy who was hosting Dany in Pentos in Season 1 (Varys’s friend) is back or not?

Honestly, I’m kinda relieved they took that out. Cersei’s hatred for Tyrion is much more interesting as originally described (“He killed our mother”, with subsequent growing resentment), instead of that prophesied magical BS.

I’ll buy you a drink and we’ll have a merry toast to “Tysha”. She’s out there…somewhere.

First Scene: Cersei and girl walk into Maggys hut. (Young Cersei is brilliant btw). After Cersei demands her to, Maggy answers her 3 questions. She says that Cersei will be queen (until one younger and more beautiful replaces her), that she will have no children with the king but that he’ll have 20, and that her children will die (The scene uses the line about shrouds from the books)

Transition to: Current Cersei. She walks up the steps, after dissing the High Septon. Tywin is laid out in the Sept of Baelor. No mention of Shae. Her and Jaime talk about Tywin. She says Jaime killed him accidentally through his own stupidity, and at least Tyrion did it on purpose.

Next scene: POV of Tyrion looking through crate. Crate is unloaded, Tyrion and Varys talk. Tyrion is shaken, and starts drinking. Varys speaks about his and Illyrio;s allegiances, since he remarks they are at his home. Tyrion throws up his wine, then drinks some more

After this the order get’s real hazy for me, can’t quite remember since I didn’t take any notes. I’ll go story line by story line.

THE WALL. First Scene: Jon practices with Olly in the yard. Sam chats with Gilly about Stannis, then a weakened Thorne comes out complaining about the weakness of the recruits. Melisandre comes down and tells Jon to meet Stannis on the Wall. On the way up, Jon asks Melisandre about the cold. She says she doesn’t feel it. She then asks him if he’s a virgin. When he says no, she says “good”. Cue heroic shot of Stannis and Davos looking out over the Wall. Stannis says he wants the Wildlings to help him take back the North, and that Jon has till nightfall to persuade Mance to bend the knee, or he will be burnt.

Second Scene. Jon pleads with Mance to consider bending the knee, but Mance refuses on the grounds that none of the Wildlings will respect him, and that it is against all he believes in. Mance says that Stannis would be a good King in this scene.

Third Scene. Mance is led out. He tells Stannis “good luck in the Wars to Come”. He is burnt. Jon shoots him with an arrow before he starts screaming. I believe this is the final scene of the episode.

THE VALE. First scene. LF, Sansa and Royce watch Robyn train, remarking how pathetic he is. LF thanks Royce for keeping Robyn.

Second Scene. Brienne is cleaning her sword. She get’s mad at Pod for his questions, says she isn’t a knight, and that their are no Lords worth protecting anymore.

Third Scene. A convoy of Vale Knights with a carriage passes Brienne and Pod. Within, Petyr says they are going far away from Cersei Lannister and her grasp.

MEEREEN. First sequence. The statue of the Harpy is toppled. At the foot, an Unsullied takes of his helmet and smiles. We then see him going into a brothel. He pays a woman, who then lies next to him, caressing him and singing him a lullaby. His throat is then cut, and we see the whore and a man in a golden mask standing over him. Learning of this, Dany tells the Unsullied to patrol the street. Missendei goes to Grey Worm and asks why an Unsullied would go to a brothel. He hesitates and then says that he doesn’t know.

Second Sequence. Hizdahr and Daario return. Hizdahr tells Dany to reopen the fighting pits, she refuses. He remarks that Yunkai gave into all their demands and installed a sort of democratic council. In bed together. Daario tells her she should open the fighting pits, and talks about how he used to fight in them after being sold to them as a child. He also tells her to reunite with her Children. Dany goes into the vault, but Viserys and Rhaegal snap and shoot fire at her. She runs away.

KINGS LANDING. Scene 2. Loras tries to give a eulogy for Tywin to Cersei, but she leaves him. She notices Lancel, who now has short hair and is wearing robes. She speaks to Kevan about Tywin, and he apologises for Lancel’s newfound piety. Lancel comes to Cersei later and apologises for tempting her sexually, and offers to pray for Tywins soul. He also pointedly apologises for his role in Robert’s death.

PENTOS. Scene 2. This is the scene from the trailer. Varys tells Tyrion to join him in his quest to help Daenerys rather then killing himself with drink. Tyrion agrees.

Honestly, I’m kinda relieved they took that out. Cersei’s hatred for Tyrion is much more interesting as originally described (“He killed our mother”, with subsequent growing resentment), instead of that prophesied magical BS.

100% agree. I was never a fan of the Valonqar prophecy. We already know that Cersei hates Tyrion, we don’t need another plot device to tell us.

Now I just hope that GRRM doesn’t make

Tyrion a secret Targ. That would completely ruin the dynamic btw him and Tywin

I JUST WANNA HEAR NIMBLE DICK TALK ABOUT THE SQUISHERS!

use a lower case “s” for spoiler. I think that might fix your tag

i can see what you mean and that’s another reason why she hates him in the books, but i feel like everything she’s told in the prophecy is what drives her every move. she drives herself mad thinking about tyrion, and about the “younger and more beautiful queen” and if the show just ignores that i feel like people won’t understand her character enough, unless they show it some other way :/

The “previously on” clips would work to remind viewers of someone like, say, Lancel, who was on a lot in Seasons 1 and 2, particularly if they wanted to remind viewers of specific scenes. It would not work for a single episode character like Illyrio, who basically was just this guy. (It might work for someone like Quaithe who was a bit more distinctive than Illyrio.)

Incidentally, it is not that it is hard for people to remember things: on the contrary, it is pretty easy; all you have to do is think about them frequently. But therein lies the catch: because we have so many demands on our time, most of us cannot mentally revisit many things. The typical Thrones viewer is an early 40’s male in a profession demanding a lot of mental energy. Sure, some of them are “fans”: but most of them are “fans” of something else, and just an appreciative viewer for this show.

(Just as an example, although I was a big SoI&F fan 10+ years ago, I did not even remember the popular idea abot Jon’s parentage until the 2nd or so episode, when something about Ned’s farewell brought it back! In the six years since I had thought about the series, I had forgotten most of it.)

Not to whine but its just inconsistent! Like Umber gone missing after Season 1 , or more importantly entire Riverlands being wiped off the map for the moment being!

Thanks for the summary, cosca. Sounds like a great episode.

Wonderful! Thank you. The Hizdahr scene contradicts tje leaked script simmary, that’s interesting.

Sorry but I’m not buying it. The show has clearly used the previously on segment to remind people of much lesser characters than Lancel. Again, Rorge and Biter come to mind. Also very little details that would be impossible to remember such as Lysa’s letter to Cat were used on the previously on segments.

Jon shoots Mance with an arrow after he starts to burn, but before he starts screaming.

Also, Mance bids Stannis good luck in “The Wars to Come” before Melisandre sets him on fire.

I think those two pieces of information imply that it’s the real Mance who burns. I have a hard time imagining that an innocent wildling dupe who is being sacrificed in his place would act that way – defiant, yet also courteous.

Thank you so much! You rock. (not so much as to forgive you Quentyn tho’ LOL)

We’ve been speculating about Yunkai and whether the show was going to wholly condense the war to the Sons of the Harpy. This would seem to lean in that direction, contrary to earlier reports about this conversation.

The Loras eulogy sounds like another comic relief Loras scene, in which case, sigh.

The summary said Yunkai didn’t accept Dany’s ultimatum; quite the contrary, they intended to march against her, and Hizdahr and Daario urge her to send the dragons to Yunkai because of it. According to the summary, that’s the reason she goes to the catacombs, to see if they can be controlled. What cosca described is quite different. Was the summary mistaken? Did cosca mishear? Did they change the script so much between the summary and the final product? One implies Yunkai will be a threat, the other doesn’t.

Yeap. It seems it’s the real deal. No Abel the Bard, no Rattleshirt switcheroo. I knew they weren’t doing the glamour in the show, and when we saw the sacrifice pyre… well, it didn’t bode so well for a certain character.

Show Loras, yea… I wasn’t really a fan of reckless/cocky book Loras. But I do think he was definitely more interesting than his show counterpart. Will have to reserve judgement though until I see his full season play out

Thanks! What does jaime say in the scene with cersei?

Do we know if Cirian Hinds was a book reader? Maybe the EW interview was about him. As you can see I’m trying to grasp straws to avoid a season 5 Barristan death :-[.

“Why would unsullied go to a brothel?” I cannot roll my eyes any harder at their scenes. Ugh….

It would be interesting to see if he implicates himself. I mean, obviously he doesn’t confess. But I mean, is his guilt noticeable? He did free the person who killed his own father, even if that person was his dear brother.

Ahhh okay thanks. Yeah that is a pretty big difference considering in what it hints at the to the future of that storyline.

If Yunkai has accepted the terms then that would imply that the battle of Meereen wont happen in the show – Daznak’s Pit will be the finale of the entire Meereen storyline .

Princess Loras….. I guess I can roll my eyes harder…..

I don’t know if Ciarin Hinds’ has read the books but I remember him saying that he was looking forward to playing a lute and singing. So he obviously knew the details of Mance’s book storyline.

Cue heroic shot of Stannis and Davos looking out over the Wall.Love that.

But Jon shoots Mance with an arrow?Mercy from Jon.It’s shame that they wasted actor like Ciaran Hinds.Pissed about Mel/Jon scene(virgin really D&D?).What the heck is this.Not to mention that stuff with uniting clans for the first time.

If Yunkai has accepted the terms then that would imply that the battle of Meereen wont happen in the show – Daznak’s Pit will be the finale of the entire Meereen storyline .

that there will be no need for a Battle of Fire. Hence no Victarion and possibly no Euron. Also makes, Barristan expendable…

Exactly. If that was what the summary said, I’d have accepted the battle was gone. But the summary implied otherwise. If cosca’s report is true, I’m ready to accept the battle is gone, now that there’s actual evidence pointing to it.

If your issue is not with the concept of the scene but with the use of the word ‘virgin’… I don’t get it. I really don’t know what problem people have with the word ‘virgin’ in the show. It’s been used since season 1 and since book 1 (though, granted, “maid” is more common in the books —but “virgin” is still used in the sexual sense 16 times in the books.)

Illyrio was our introduction to Dany, He was hosting her and the ass hole brother, he set up her wedding, for God’s sake HE GAVE the dragon eggs to her! And then later that mysterious scene in the dungeons with Varys! A major mistake not to have him back!

If people dont remember him even by showing “previously on” then we got a national low IQ epidemy on our hands!

The only time Loras has resembled his book version was in the episode written by GRRM where he got that zinger on Jaime.

What does that have to do with Unsullied seeking intimacy?

Illyrio was our introduction to Dany, He was hosting her and the ass hole brother, he set up her wedding, for God’s sake HE GAVE the dragon eggs to her!And then later that mysterious scene in the dungeons with Varys! A major mistake not to have him back!

If people dont remember him even by showing “previously on” then we got a national low IQ epidemy on our hands!

I think Wimsey is just a contrarian by nature. I find it very hard to believe that people would not remember that scene after having their memory jogged by a “previously on” segment. Again I think they did want to have Illyrio back but they couldn’t make it work due to scheduling conflicts. Next season though, we will see :-]

Maybe that’s for the best – as its shaping up in TWOW preview chapters – sounds like it would be insanely expensive/ pretty much unfilmable for a TV budget (even one as big as Thrones’)

can explain Illyrio’s absence via a “Business trip”, after all Tyrion and Varys are there unexpectedly

Would make sense for Illyrio to be back at some point in the future regardless of whether Aegon is in it or not

I thought u were responding to me being bothered with Loras being a comic relief character. Im fine with the unsullied scene Im just bothered with Missandei being so confused by it and their romance in general.

Spoilers for everything we know so far, books and season 5 of show:

I’m feeling pretty confident that the battle of Meereen is out at this point. I wouldn’t be surprised if in earlier drafts it was in, and in those Yunkai was going to march, but it’s dead now. That also matches up with the Barristan rumors. If, like most people thinks, he dies in the battle, that would explain why they decided to kill him early. He probably can’t be alive for when Dany meets Tyrion or when she gets to Westeros, so they’re knocking him out now.

My guess is Dany is probably going to have her fire and blood conversion moment in the pit itself, and burn the whole place right there and then. (I know there was the pic of a set with lots of burned bones, but at this point I think they were just trolling and that was a random dragon feeding scene, not the finale in Drogon’s lair) That cuts out the battle and it cuts the whole Dothraki arc from the next book. I bet we’re probably going to get her setting out for Westeros in episode 10 at pretty much the same time we get the conclusion in Dorne, revealing that she has a massive army waiting for her there.

Pretty much the most cringeworthy thing involved with the show.

Who knew there was a demographic for romantic handmaiden/eunuch fan fiction?

That takes up 5-7 minutes all season. Cry me a river. It’s not like these characters should be actual people, we all know they are only window dressing for Dany.

Stand by for more Grey Worm/Missandei linguistic scenes.

Its like the writers are trying to get to this huge revelation that you dont need sex to have a relationship and its taking Greyworm and Missandei multiple seasons to figure it out. Way too cheesy for Game of thrones.

Turncloak: 100% agree. I was never a fan of the Valonqar prophecy. We already know that Cersei hates Tyrion, we don’t need another plot device to tell us.

Now I just hope that GRRM doesn’t make

Though if it thematically relates to more than just her dislike/hatred for Tyrion, eg it is relevant to bigger issues such as her relationship with Qyburn, Ser Robert Strong and why she allows magic, eg it is wielded against her so she can wield it back

The revelation of that prophecy also revealed that Cersei murdered her childhood BFF at age 13, so I don’t know that I’d say that whitewashed her.

The Illyrio thing is such a non-issue. They tie him into Varys’ conspiracy. They have Tyrion and Varys arrive at his home in Pentos and set Tyrion off on his journey. The only thing that’s missing is the actual actor walking out and saying “Yep, I’m the guy my buddy Varys is talking about.” Given Varys’ expanded role in getting Tyrion to Volantis and pointing Tyrion on his path, this little cameo would be the extent of his involvement in the season.

Would it have been nice to trot him out for the 2 minute scene? Sure. Does it change anything that the actor doesn’t appear? Nope.

I’m sure they wanted Allam to show up but sometimes, the production doesn’t allow it. Having Varys spell out the relationship and play the role with Tyrion lets them write around his absense. Oh well, not a big deal.

If you want to get upset over stuff, get upset over real stuff.

Please, that scene with them alone in the throne room last season was 5-7 minutes of pure torture itself.

It’s only a matter of time before a plot twist comes along allowing Greyworm to use an elixir consisting of Drogon’s tears, White Walker baby formula and strands of Dothraki hair to grow himself a new cock.

Personally not surprised now if they have actually burned Mance though if I watched this cold I would have been “oh shit they actually…burned….the…..real….Mance….no glamour, Dalla, Val and baby were out, they never had him playing music and we have never heard of Horn of Joramun so the writing was on the Wall (no pun intended) that they are sidelining his plot

Giving everything to Tormund it seems, unsurprising given the TV viewer relationship between Tormund and Jon having been visually established and Mance was not

Depends on whether this is meant to be a strategic mistake by Stannis/Mel, eg Wildlings will splinter under various leaders now so they are impossible to wield or control to any end

Am rather dissapointed as I’m actually a big fan of his book character, same with Ser Barristan who will probably be killed off too and I don’t think there’s going to be a Battle of Mereen. So they seem to have a habit of butchering the good characters. meanwhile we get 3 Sand Snakes when only 2 are necassary and One Direction Trystane and Barbie Myrcella, ugh. Not to mention Brienne and Pod filler with Jaimie in Dorne, good grief could have given them a hiatus like Bran

Ultimately I understand they are cutting things substantially

Wow, already all the whining over petty nonsense. I’m debating whether or not this should be my first year where I just watch the show and don’t visit any of the fan sites or forums especially knowing that this season is going to have a lot of changes as D&D try and take the convoluted mess that is AFFC/ADWD and turn it into something remotely entertaining.

I’m seriously consider it. I’ll listen to the usual podcasts, read reviews —but I may abstain myself from most comment sections. It will get ugly.

they’re really burning Mance, he’s a terrific actor and they could use him up a lot more, make him more layered etc. Also because he really CAN sing and it would be awesome seeing him do that at least in Winterfell. I mean, even the infamous Ros had more screentime than him.

However, he seems to fit the anonymous actor’s statement about being psyched for having more to do this season only to be disappointed he’d been written out.

I cannot restate this enough. You NEED to cover all your episode spoilers. Instructions on how to do so are at the top of every comments section.

If you repeatedly refuse to cover your spoilers, I’m going to assume you’re trolling.

If you can’t handle this fandom at our worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve us at our best.

Season 5: Episode 1 Cold Opening: Young Cersei and her friend Melara are walking through the woods after hearing of a fortuneteller called Maggy the Frog. They arrive in Maggy’s hut and Cersei begs Maggy for her fortune. Maggy answers her three questions. Maggy tells Cersei that she will be queen until one younger and more beautiful replaces her, that she will have no children with the king, but he’ll have twenty, and that her children will die. “Gold shall be their crowns, and gold their shrouds,” Maggy says. Melara is pulling at Young Cersei’s arm and urges her to leave. “Cersei, we have to go!” Melara says. Cersei awakes to discover that Tywin is dead.

Cersei is walking to the Sept of Baelor with Meryn Trant as Tywin’s casket being showcased. Cersei walks into the Sept of Baelor where the High Sparrow greets her. Cersei and Jaime are standing over Tywin’s corpse where she asks him if he is the one who freed Tyrion. “The monster is still out there drawing breath,” Cersei says. Jaime denies it, but Cersei knows him too well and knows he’s lying. She leaves him there alone with Jaime feeling very guilty.

Cersei feels like a lion drowning in a pool if golden roses, watching Margaery comfort Tommen while Loras is offering his condolences. She leaves the place without a look at Loras, walks into Pycelle, but avoids him. Cersei wants to be left alone, but then she walks into Lancel Lannister. She hardly recognizes him. Cersei speaks to her uncle Kevan Lannister about Tywin and he apologizes for his son’s ragged looks. Kevan informs her that Lancel has joined the Sparrows.

Later on, Cersei sees Lancel again who asks for her forgiveness for sleeping with her and tells her that he’s a changed man now. Lancel also discusses the nasty business with Robert’s “hunting accident”, but Cersei pretends she doesn’t know what he is talking about.

POV of Tyrion looking through the crate. Varys opens the Crate and reveals that Tyrion is in Pentos. Tyrion is shaken, drinks 8 cups of wine, and then vomits on Illyrio’s expensive carpet. Varys tells him that he and Illyrio have bet on the wrong Targaryen, but Tyrion is not interested in the Game of Thrones anymore. Tyrion and Varys enter Illyrio’s palace to change their clothes.

Tyrion and Varys speak outside on the balcony where Varys urges him to join him on his journey to Meereen. “You never told me why you set me free,” Tyrion says. “Your brother asked me to,” Varys says. “Could’ve said no,” Tyrion says. “Refuse the Kingslayer, a dangerous proposition,” Varys says. “Not as dangerous as releasing me. You risked your life, your position, everything…why? You’re not family, You owe me nothing,” Tyrion says. “I didn’t do it for you. I did it for the Seven Kingdoms,” Varys says. “A drunken dwarf will never be a savior of the Seven Kingdoms,” Tyrion says. “I don’t believe in saviors. I believe men of talent have a part to play in the war to come,” Varys says. “I will never sit on the Iron Throne,” Tyrion says. “You could help another climb those steps and take that seat. You have your father’s instincts for politics and you have compassion,” Varys says. “Compassion? I killed my lover with my bare hands and I shot my own father with a crossbow,” Tyrion says. “I never said you were perfect,” Varys says. “What is it you want, exactly?” Tyrion says. “Peace, prosperity, A land where the powerful do not prey on the powerless. The seven kingdoms needs a ruler loved by millions with a powerful army and the right family name,” Varys says. Tyrion tells Varys, “Good lucking finding him.” Varys answers “Who said anything about him?” Tyrion agrees to join Varys on his journey to Dany as long as he can keep drinking.

The statue of the Harpy is torn down from the Pyramid. At the foot, Stalwart Shield, known as “White Rat”, takes off his helmet and smiles. He walks into a brothel looking a whore to cuddle with. He pays the woman and she sings to him while he rests his head on her breast, but then a man masked with the face of the Harpy slits his throat. The whore and the man in a golden mask stand over him.

Learning of this, Dany orders the Unsullied to patrol the streets. Missandei goes to Grey Worm to ask why an Unsullied would go to the brothel. He hesitates and then says that he doesn’t know. Daario and Hizdahr return to Meereen. Hizdahr tells Dany to reopen the fighting pits, but she refuses. Dany and her council of Daario, Missandei, Barristan, and Grey Worm discuss how she must deal with this major problem threatening her rule. Hizdahr explains that Yunkai gave into all their demands and installed a democratic council.

In bed together, Daario tells Dany that she should open the fighting pits and talks about how he used to fight in them after being sold to them as a child. He also says that she needs to reunite with her children. Dany is afraid she can’t control her dragons and doesn’t want another child to die, but she seeks out the dragons in the catacombs.

When Dany arrives, her dragons Viserion and Rhaegal are not happy to see her. They have grown huge and angry and they attack Dany. All that keeps them from eating her are the chains. Dany, scared and horrified, escapes the catacombs and realizes that she has lost control of them completely.

Sansa and Littlefinger are on a tour of the Vale. Sansa sits with Littlefinger and Yohn Royce as they watch Robin train, remarking how pathetic he is. Littlefinger seems to be the only one entertained, while Sansa looks bored and Royce looks concerned. Littlefinger mentions that he is leaving Robin in Lord Royce’s care.

Brienne is cleaning her sword. She gets mad at Pod for his questions and says, “I don’t want anyone following me. I’m not a leader. All I ever wanted was to fight for a lord I believed in. All the good lords are dead and the rest are monsters.”

A convoy of Vale Knights with a carriage passes Brienne and Pod. Sansa and Littlefinger are inside the carriage talking about trust. Littlefinger tells Sansa that they will be going far away from Cersei Lannister’s grasp.

Jon practices with Olly in the yard. Sam converses with Gilly about Stannis and then a weakened Alliser comes out complaining about the weakness of the recruits. Melisandre comes down and tells Jon to meet Stannis on the Wall. Jon takes the winch elevator to the top of the wall and on the ride up, Jon asks Melisandre about the cold. She says she doesn’t feel it. She then asks him if he’s a virgin. When Jon says no, she says “good.” Jon meets Stannis with Melisandre and Davos following close behind. Stannis reminds Jon that the man who put a dagger into Robb’s heart is now ruling over Winterfell and asks if Jon doesn’t want to avenge his brother. Jon informs him that he wants a great many things but his loyalty belongs to the Watch. Stannis tells Jon that many love him (Jon), and some don’t, and then goes on that he doesn’t want to kill the Wildlings, he needs men to fight Roose Bolton after all. He wants them to kneel to him. He wants their king Mance to kneel to him. He gives Jon until nightfall to convince Mance to kneel.

Jon hurries off to Mance and tries to convince him. Jon meets with Mance attempts to negotiate by saying, “You told me you weren’t here to conquer, you told me you had bled enough.” Mance replies, “That’s right, but I don’t want them bleeding for Stannis Baratheon either.” “For the first time in history, Thenns and Hornfoots, the Ice River Clans, even the Giants, a life’s work uniting them. You didn’t do it for power; you didn’t do it for glory…you brought them together to save them because none of them will survive the winter not if they’re north of the wall. Isn’t their survival more important than your pride?” Jon says. “Pride…Fuck my pride,” Mance says.

In the yard of Castle Black, Mance is led out and tells Stannis, “Good luck in the Wars to Come.” Melisandre then burns Mance and Jon shoots him with an arrow before he starts screaming.

I like Mance, but if it’s Mance who’s dying instead of Barristan, I’ll take that. I like Barristan more. Do we know if Ciarán Hinds has read the books? It’d only fit then. It’s gotta be someone who’s been in the show for a while but hasn’t had much to do, but if they were faithful to the books would have a lot more to do this season, yet they killed him off early. So… either Barristan or Mance, right? So, has Hinds read the books? Does he know his storyline at least?

I’m seriously consider it. I’ll listen to the usual podcasts, read reviews —but I may abstain myself from most comment sections. It will get ugly.

For years we been told that stories will be condensed, streamlined and changed to make it to work for TV adaptation. Everyone has been advised to learn to separate the tv show with the books, but when the actual situation the episode aired, it seems a lot of people still having trouble separating books with the tv show.

If they did kill off Mance I wouldn’t be surprised if Ciaran Hinds had something to do with it.

He’s never seemed very enthusiastic about the role and may have had second thoughts about taking it. I’m sure the lack of screen time and interesting material didn’t help. I can’t say I will complain if he is killed off because he’s been one of my least favorite castings.

shame that Illyrio could not return but it is not a decision made by D&D, but the actor’s schedule was full….

Roger Allam wasn’t going to be available to come back as Illyrio, they should have had a painted portrait of him hanging in his house for Varys to refer to. Just mentioning his name will go over the top of a lot of casual viewers’ heads, but a visual reminder of the character would have made up for him not being there.

This would be the most unintentionally hilarious thing.

If those anonymous quotes are from Ciaran than I guess I would be completely wrong about him uninterested in the role and asking to be written out. Those quotes don’t seem like anything Ciaran would say though imo and it said the quotes were from an actor who has been around since the beginning or for several seasons which also makes Ciaran unlikely.

Yes, although that is of what he looked like when he was young and it doesn’t look anything like him now.

Yeah they should have painted a portrait of him with captions saying “I’m Illyrio, Remember me”. God one of the stupidest things I’ve heard all day LOL

“Loras gives a eulogy”, you mean a *formal* one to an entire crowd, or just personally?

Nimble Dick scaring Pod with the Squishers is one of the funniest moments in the books lol

YOUR characters. No mine! I honestly will say I give two flying fucks about some of those characters “few” people whine about. Purist will complain about anything these days even if Lord Fat-Shit had a few lines in the books, and the show cut them for obvious reason.

Cheesy?? Have you read the books? There’s plenty if cheesy shit GRRM have written in the books that didn’t make it on the screen. Oh… I get it. Because it was not written by GRRM so it becomes something to whine and bitch about.

The Purist will make anything important as long as they feel special. Sadly, they haven’t noticed the difference of book is book and show is show.

when Roger Allam was busy etc. The play he was in did not actually last through the whole shoot (running from July to December would be a bit long for that), it’s just that it meant he was busy in particular when they filmed scenes in the villa in Dubrovnik standing in for Illyrio’s manse.

Since Illyrio’s namedropped but doesn’t actually show up in the premiere it’s possible that he and Varys have a scene together later in the season (Varys has to get up to something after Tyrion’s capture after all), so long as its one they could’ve filmed in Belfast (meaning an interior scene) once his play was done with. Remember that Tyrion and Varys head to Volantis for ep. 503 instead of heading straight to Meereen. If indeed the Golden Company are with Stannis and not in Volantis in the show, it could be that they head to Volantis to meet with Illyrio (where he could be on business or something).

Because it happened in the book. Stalwart Shield ring a bell? Hopr you’re not a purist pretender

Yeah that could work, but I thought the Volantis scenes were just Tyrion and Varys walking the Long bridge and then going to the brothel where Jorah eventually captures Tyrion.

You can’t reason with these morons man. They don’t understand actors get paid to act so thats why they aren’t giving Missendei and Greyworm a free ride just to stand around Dany without doing some work.

I mean that’s what they’d be there to meet him but Tyrion would insist on going to the brothel first. Varys would then only have a scene with him after Tyrion’s captured.

What if Illyrio is a Faceless Man? That would also imply that Varys could well be too. Perhaps even high ranking officials within FM…. maybe…. Or not.

If Illyrio is FM, that’d easily explain him not being seen, probably off bending ears somewhere else….. like in Oldtown, or anywhere. Who would know?

Yeah haha I know, but the forum crashed once again. Meeting Illyrio in Volantis would give Varys another scene so that he has more screen time. I could also see that in 504 so that Varys isn’t missing for a majority of the season. It would be a good time to reveal something to Illyrio and hint at going back to the capital to end the Lannister regime by killing Kevan and Pycelle so that they can make room for Dany (or if Aegon is still in the show) to take the Throne.

i cant read all of this as it is too long…but in regards to illyrio…im confused as to why people are so annoyed that people want him in…hes been a mystery since season one to show watcher…with him and varys in the scene with arya leaves a lot of loose ends open…he gave dany the effing eggs! i dont mind if hes not in..but id like them to somehow keep him present in some way…and so what if he was in a play…they recast daario and kevan and the mountain…why not illyrio?

The forum’s really inconsistent these days. I’d say it crashes at least once a day now.

If I were able to post on it now, I’d say that I’ve figured out why Mel asks Jon if he’s a virgin. Out of context that sounds like awkward writing (if it had come off as awkward though in the moment I think the reviewers would have noted this) but as cosca said, this comes right after she tells him how she doesn’t fell the cold. In ASOS she proves this by touching him to prove her hand is warm and saying that this is how “life should feel”. I imagine he’ll react to this awkwardly and that will prompt her to ask if he’s a virgin.

And yeah, if Illyrio’s back, your above spec. is how I expect it to play out.

As far as the Yunkai stuff, it of course makes sense that Battle of Meereen is getting cut given how they were depicting the internal Sons of the Harpy attack throughout this season. It was unnecessary and obviously D&D feel the need to get Dany the hell out of Meereen ASAP which is something people who have read the books have been saying for years.

However, I still maintain that the leaked script conversation in E1 exists in the episode, it’s just that some people (including the Facebook poster who is relaying the gist of the script scene as opposed to quoting it) misread the intentions. I would also say that the recalling of the scene by Cosca is probably leaving out some of the lines that would reveal why the script leak relayer misinterpreted the notion.

In reality, the scene probably plays out as a mixture of the two accounts. Hizdahr and Daario state that Yunkai have more or less agreed to the terms of peace but both feel that this peace is tenuous and at the first sign of weakness, they would be eager to attack. This does not make the attack imminent but just a background threat to let the audience know that Dany is in a tough spot unless she really shows power in Meereen. The suggestion by Daario for Dany to bring the dragons out of hiding and into the open would be to remind the people of Meereen as well as get the word to other cities like Yunkai and Astapor that opposing her would be an awful idea on account of her having the nukes.

So, no I don’t think the script was changed, I just think the conversation was not relayed accurately and it caused some people to jump to conclusions (like OMG, Yunkai is going to attack!)

Cosca is free to comment on whether or not this sounds like how the scene went down or not.

They missed out on Mel telling Jon “you know nothing, Jon Snow.”

That comes later. In ADWD rather than ASOS. I’m sure she still will.

Yeah you make a valid point. He recently just lost Ygritte and probably doesn’t want to enter the same place again. Mel touching Jon and him responding awkwardly would make sense in that case since he doesn’t want that type of relationship with someone at the moment. Life obviously doesn’t feel warm for him when he just lost someone that he was in love with. Considering it is just a small exchange between Jon and Mel, the dialogue isn’t a huge deal. Based off of the summary Cosca has, it seems they are staying more faithful to the source material than I expected. At least for Jon’s first scene, it’s very similar to ASOS Jon XI.

Hopefully. That seems like a line that would be included in the show.

I’m really not sure why Mel would care if Jon is a virgin, as it didn’t seem to bother her with Gendry.

I think she’s just asking him as a reaction to his discomfort.

Penny? That gorgeous girl in BigBangTheory? She’s in GOT? WOO-HOO!!

Uh-oh! It’s not THAT Penny? Are you sure? DAMN! Ah, well. Such is whatever it is….. At least I can dream.

In D&D we trust! And given the changes they’ve made for this season its been validated! Thanks guys, keep up the excellent work.

I don’t give a flying fart if people think Illyrio is irrelevant – of course people remember him. Roger Allam is a popular and well-respected actor with a following, and Illyrio likely has a bigger role to play down the line. No Illyrio, no dragons for Dany.

I strongly suspect that Mance isn’t even mostly dead. I think he just went for a walk.

i cant read all of this as it is too long…but in regards to illyrio…im confused as to why people are so annoyed that people want him in…hes been a mystery since season one to show watcher…with him and varys in the scene with arya leaves a lot of loose ends open…he gave dany the effing eggs! i dont mind if hes not in..but id like them to somehow keep him present in some way…and so what if he was in a play…they recast daario and kevan and the mountain…why not illyrio?

Because he served his purpose already. Anything else coming out of his mouth at this point Varys can replace. 1. The Mountain needed to be Recast regardless because of the fight between the Red Viper and the chain of event of Tyrion and the Dorne Plot.

2. Daario, well we could do without him, am sure some whiners woulda cried claiming him as their favorite character. Perhaps there’s more to Daario further down the story.

In bed together. Daario tells her she should open the fighting pits,

Okay, as a proud member of the perv side of the audience I’ll ask the important questions… any Emilia Clarke nudity?

Yea, I have heard the “no nudity clause” rumor but people said the same thing after season 2 and it wasn’t true then and I doubt it is true now.

So in the same day Daniel Portman says LS is part of the show’s “future” and Richard Dormer pops up in the premiere (his first appearance since the season 3 events)….. and they want to make us believe LS is cut? Right.

Probably should have commented earlier (when the comments were actually discussing it), but I’m thinking the show didn’t include the Valonqar part of the prophesy because it’s too “spoilery”. I think the show purposely avoids outright spoilers. So much so, that instead of working around them, they simply cut them all together (the Red Wedding in Dany’s House of the Undying visions, comes to mind for this argument).

Richard Dormer probably went because he lives in the UK and was once part of the show. A few other previous cast members were there too. He also did an interview some time ago where he said the show runners haven’t contacted him and he thinks he has been written out of the show.

If the biggest problem some people have is Illyrio being absent, I think this means that it is an excellent season premiere. It seems a little more muted, but really this is required after many characters have gone off on different journeys, however I haven’t read anything that suggests it hasn’t lived up to its high reputation.

I’m surprised it took so long for someone to ask this.

There was only one other previous cast member at the premiere.. Mark Addy, who is always going to these things every year. As far as I know, Dormer hadn’t made a GOT-related appearance since 2013.

LOL Any updates on that pervy website that tracks that kind of stuff?

My Unsullied parents didn’t recognize Illyrio 5 episodes after he was introduced in Season 1, when Arya spots him walking with Varys. You’d ve amazed at what people forget when they don’t already know who or what is important to the larger story beforehand.

He is really an unimportant character in the show. [Spoiler] In the books there’s a decent chance he is the actual father of fAegon (not super familiar with the details of this theory as I give less than two shits about Young Griff but whatever). Since the Griffs are almost certainly cut though,[/spoiler] Illyrio’s only importance is a degree of separation between Varys and Daenerys. Why involve a nothing character that no one remembers or cares about when all the information he can give can also be given by Varys, a great character who has great chemistry with Tyrion? Absolutely nothing is lost in cutting Illyrio from the scene.

Melisandre’s making Jon Snow uncomfortable already? Not unexpected. I’m looking forward to that adversarial relationship getting translated from the books this season.

I’m concerned that Shireen’s in danger from her, though as Stannis’ sole heiress, it does seem strange to consider that she could be sacrificed. Melisandre’s conversation with Selyse in episode 4×07 notwithstanding:

“Your daughter must be with us. The Lord [of Light] needs her.”

According to IMDB (so take it with a grain of salt), Stannis (Stephen Dillane) is slated to appear in 6 episodes this season, the most he’s had since Season 1.

Yara (Gemma Whelan), is listed as appearing in episodes 5×07, x09 & x10. Nothing listed for any other Greyjoys except for Theon. Alfie Allen’s only listed in 5×01 and 5×10 at the moment. Anything happening with Balon will likely happen offscreen.

I’d rather avoid speculating about Arya’s storyline until she appears. Show watchers, brace yourselves: Maisie Williams has a lot to do this season.

I’m sad about Mance. I maintain that Hinds himself was a giid pick for the character, but they didn’t give him any particularly interesting or revealing dialogue in Season 3. No matter how good his S4 scene was (which was very good), and no matter how good his material was in this episode, he always will feel like an underdeveloped character. I was hoping that they’d stretch out some time before his death in S5, but knew that was unlikely. Still, killing him right out of the gate? Makes Jon saving his neck in S4E10 seem kind of pointless. I’ll wait and see how well they handle it before judging it but not feeling great about it.

Then stop watching you moron,go read some of the riveting chapters from AFFC,i’m sure that’s better .

Wow,you’re such an intellectual,gotta love these people who pick up quotes from the internet to make themselves feel smarter because obviously they lack grey matter .

I guess I should be honoured that someone went to the trouble of re-arranging my summary. One thing though. This episode does not have a cold open. That scene is after the opening credits.

My guess is that D&D weren’t sure if they might need Manc alive, but when they actually planned out season 5 they realised he wasn’t needed, and other, perhaps more recognisable characters (Tormund)

My guess is that D&D weren’t sure if they might need Mance alive, but when they actually planned out season 5 they realised he wasn’t needed, and other, perhaps more recognisable characters (Tormund) could fill the role. I don’t completely blame them for this, it’s a shame, and a bit annoying, but these things happen in TV.

At least Illyrio is mentioned. If you want to complain about continuity, complain about the probably permanent absence of the Brotherhood.

Is there any possibility that Melisandre will make UnMance in Beric Dondarrion style?

A quick fact: the premiere is now online. This post should not be construed as encouraging piracy in any way, it is only intended as a newsworthy fact. This is truly my last post until May!

The prophecy from the books turned Cersei intro a traditional evil queen stereotype. I’m glad at least on the show her complex relationship with Tyrion won’t be retconned by that lousy valonqar reference…

Hmmm. Pretty sure at least one of the articles said it did have a cold open.

Secondly, can you detail a little bit the scene with Jaime and Cercei? What does he say? How is their interaction? I guess it doesn’t play at all like in the books.

“The Wars to Come had something genuinely new to satisfy fans”

You more or less said everything on the topic that I was going to say. But in addition:

Most of the people complaining about the lack of Illyrio seem to have little, if any, grasp of how television shows work. The actor who played Illyrio was not contracted, he had another job at the time of filming and was not available. Therefore, if they wanted Illyrio in the scene they would have had to re-cast him. Re-casting requires casting calls to be sent out to agents, and a casting director to be paid to find a halfway decent replacement for a character that would only appear in two minutes of one episode. It was a financial decision, end of story. The character’s involvement, as well as his absence, could easily be explained and his appearance made in a later season (if at all). They don’t have to pay the casting director for however much time it takes to find a new Illyrio, and they don’t have to pay an actor. That money can now go to things like sets, and costumes, and CGI dragons. It was a business decision made by the producers and it doesn’t really matter whether you like it or not because that’s just how the business works. They’re running on a limited budget and if you want special effects, things have to be sacrificed. End of discussion.

In before “But they re-cast so many other characters!” Yeah, characters that were actually crucial to the show. Illyrio really isn’t crucial. Would it have been nice to have him? Sure, that would have been cool. But it doesn’t work like that. Just doesn’t.

I can’t believe that one character not showing up is such a big area of discussion. They do so many things so right, but people on forums instead tend to focus on that one little thing they omitted or adapted in a slightly unconvincing way. Frankly, for a show that many regard as one of the greatest ever, it has the most critical fanbase I’ve ever seen.

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