What do you mean "not too much"?

Why are you so fatphobic? A woman doesn't have to be thin to be beautiful and I don't want to hear any "Fat people are unhealthy!" excuse because there are thin women out there who will eat nothing but junk and still be as thin as a toothpick

^agree with above

There is nothing wrong with having some curves, but being overweight is NOT something one should encourage in children. There is a difference between accepting the choices someone made with their body and actively telling children that being overweight is something great. It isn't. Just as they shouldn't be too thin, they shouldn't be overweight either.

Otherwise, I frankly don't care, I just want a good character.

^yikes. overweight doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. and all it will be doing is showing that people who are overweight are worthy of being princesses. it's not going to encourage kids to be fat, just like having a lesbian princess isn't going to encourage kids to be gay, nor did having a princess like Mulan encourage kids to hack off their hair and join the army.

I dont talk English but I`ll try.

Let`s see BB2010: Im not fatphobic, but with not too much fat I mean non insane obesity, because its not a good role model to the kids. If a Princess is too fat it seems to express that its ok to be unhealthy, and thats not a good message, because if you are very fat you should try to be on health

Tambien os diigo que soois todos unos putos mimosos de mierrdaa. De toda la vida ser una vaca con patas no está bien, asi que dejad de hacer demagogia que os sus meto una guantá que os revientoo el clitoriss

" If a Princess is too fat it seems to express that its ok to be unhealthy, and thats not a good message, because if you are very fat you should try to be on health "... really? we have had TONS of hugely popular overweight characters (Steven Universe, Peter Griffin, etc) INCLUDING characters that overeat (Cookie Monster--- has there been an epidemic of kids stuffing mass amounts of cookies in their face because of Sesame Street?!) and NONE of these characters has EVER caused a problem with obesity! No child has ever watched those shows and thought "wow, I wanna be fat!" or encouraged kids to be unhealthy. That argument is always SO RIDICULOUS and fatphobic when I hear it

^There actually are people who think characters like Shrek are linked to obesity.
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I don't agree with this nonsense but I hope you don't agree with the thin princesses causing eating disorders either. It goes both ways.

^I ..never said that. Yeah, if people want to argue that fat princesses cause obesity, they can argue that thin princesses cause eating disorders (by the way, I have gotten tons of confessions on Walt Disney Confessions about the thin princesses causing eating disorders/bulimia/poor body image)

I'm not crying out for a lesbian princess because it doesn't matter to me on a personal level, but there are a lot of people who do want one, and inevitably it will happen. Hopefully it will be a good relationship portrayal, not like some of the heterosexual ones that exist which I think are potentially harmful on children's views of relationships (I'm thinking of Hiccup and Astrid in the first How to Train Your Dragon for example, I really dislike that portrayal).

A fat princess? I'm not crying out for that either, but I don't think as many people are at this stage. I don't mind if it happens though, we've had princesses who are unrealistically thin and I agree that that does more damage than a fat princess would. I don't think anyone ever looks at an overweight body and thinks that is something they want to strive for, therefore I can't imagine it having any effect on the obesity issue. Given that mental illness is becoming one of the most prevalent health issues in first world society, it might actually be of benefit by helping people to accept themselves more.

Princesslullaby you are taking advantage of the fact that I cant express myself in English. You are doing demagogy.

Refering to your example (Peter Griffin), he is fat and all the jokes are about him being a fat man. So it doesnt encourage to be fat, as it is a way of having fun of him.

If you want to think that being extremely fat is good, ok, but it isn´t, as it can bring health problems.

I didnt say that everybody has to be thin, I said that being VERY fat isnt good.

@princesslullaby but you did say that NONE of these fat gloutonous characters have caused a problem with obesity (how do you know that?) and you said the argument was "RIDICOULOUS" and fatphobic, so the arguments and confessions you've seen regarding thin characters, are they ridicoulous and "thinphobic"?

If a girl looks at Ariel and starts brushing her hair with a fork and wants to be skinny like her, is it really that farfetched that a kid would see Shaggy or Chowder devouring junk food and would want to do the same?

It's just like the stupid "video games and horror movies cause real life violence" argument. Should we arrest Nintendo when some kid shoots up a school? These arguments insult young people's intelligence and take away personal responsibility or depending on the age of the child, parental responsibility.

Once again, fat doesn't always mean unhealthy! There are skinny people who eat nothing but junk and still stay skinny!

When i was a little girl I was chubby and I was chubby until after high school and I always felt bad that in media skinny=beautiful. I actually considered becoming bulimic because of how bad I felt about myself. I'm not trying to blame disney for my problems, I'm just saying it would be nice if there were more characters who were comfortable about how their bodies look no matter what size. And like princesslullaby said there are new shows out now that help people who aren't thin be more comfortable with their bodies. Thanks to Rose Quartz and Amethyst I can look at my stomach and my arms and my thighs and think "I'm still beautiful!"

I find the "fat (not too much)" a little insulting

Just because there are skinny people who live unhealthy it doesn't mean that there is no connection between health and body weight. And, btw, obesity KILLS people. Every freaking day. The average live expectancy in some countries is in danger to go down because of illnesses caused by obesity.

Also, saying that a princess shouldn't be obese doesn't translate into saying "but I am totally okay with them being skinny". I like them the best when they look healthy and just because there have been examples of them overdoing it, it doesn't mean that it would be okay to overdo it in the other direction.

Because people are pressured in society to be skinny. No one is societally pressured to be fat. That's the huge difference in all of your arguments.

That actually depends on society. In some cultures, being heavy is a beauty standard (because it indicates wealth).

I agree with princesslullaby. people are pressured to be skinny and that itself can cause death;
1. Not eating at all to the point of starving to death
2. Bulemia

And also there are people who are fat who eat healthy but are still fat (because it's not that easy losing weight)

there are children who aren't skinny who get teased for being fat. Not just by other children, by ADULTS. When I was 9 I was told by my teenage sister that if I didn't stop eating I would EXPLODE. When I was 16 that same sister (who was in her 20s by that time) would make comments about how I wanted to eat ice cream after a bad day at school. Another sister would blame me if we ran out of hostess snacks or whatever junk food when most of the time I only had a little bit of that food.

Body image is important no matter what size, a fat girl shouldn't have to hate herself because she's not thin even after trying so hard to lose weight.

And society glorifies buff biceps and large muscles in men but when someone tries emulate that, exhibit a-
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People don't sympathize with him or try to blame society at large or superheroes for his problems, they rightfully call him crazy and tell him to get help. I'm a skinny dude, who also sucks at sports, and got teased for it in high school but I'm not about to hit the gym and become addicted to steroids because I wanna look like the Rock, or even Batman or Thor.

Variety and diversity in characters is always welcomed and appreciated but expecting the rest of society to change and fix YOUR personal problems is entitled and self detrimental. If you need others, especially fictional characters, to validate who you are, how beautiful you are and what you're capable of, that speaks to a much bigger issue, and it's YOUR issue first and foremost, not Princess movies, not Superhero movies, not rest of the world or society, yours.

Just because you were more confident in your body doesn't mean other people aren't.

If an adult is going to make fun of a child for being chubby you think that child is going to automatically think "Well there's nothing wrong with me" No! Because most kids don't think like that! I never thought that! Children I knew and loved never thought that! Children need help from books, movies, comics, video games, etc especially PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE to help them learn to love themselves! I grew up thinking there was so many things wrong with me because there was nobody like me on tv and because people in real life made me feel that way and because of that I still have to wonder if I'm perfect the way I am or if I'm still disgusting in society's eyes

^Who says I'm confident? I'm not. I am very self-conscious but I'm not going around guilt tripping others, including people who make art and media, for making me feel that way because that would be self absorbed. What makes me so special? Why should Marvel make a skinny lanky superhero just to please me? Expecting them to help fix MY internal problem that has to do with me and MY self esteem? Dictating how an artist should handle their work, through lecturing and guilt tripping them, is extremely entitled.

It's ridicoulous to blame video games for school shootings and it's ridicoulous to blame eating disorders on cartoons. You can't say children NEED works of fiction to love themselves and then get mad when they're a bad influence. You're shooting yourself in the foot with that. As for real people, Disney should do this and that just because people YOU know are assholes? How's that their problem?

We should be encouraging children to change and better themselves from within, whether it's losing weight or being comfortable with the weight they are now, not expecting others to change to make them feel comfortable. Relying on others to fix your personal problem is not productive.

Disney is made for Americanized audiences Swanpride, so lets not pretend that your comment made any sense. All I hear right now is you guys telling obese people they aren't worthy of being princesses.

I love how you're totally missing the point of what I'm saying! I'm trying to say representation MATTERS. It's like when black children want a black princess because they want to see someone who looks like them

Also do you think I'm the only one thinking this way? Better go on tumblr cuz there's thousands or millions of people who feel the same way I do

^You are aware of the reputation Tumblr has right? Even then Tumblr does not represent everyone, for whatever reason a lot of people who think that way gather there. And so what if you and others think that way? That doesn't make it right or healthy. There was a time when most people thought slavery was okay? But that doesn't make it okay.

@princesslullaby I'm fine with a fat princess but not for the reasons y'all keep saying. Representation is nice but you guys are taking it too far. All I hear right now is people encouraging children to focus even more on race or weight than they already would have and expecting places like Disney to basically guidance counsel children and pander to their needs, and strengthening the hold you guys are saying society has over children already.

The representation matters sentiment is fine but y'all are taking it to a place where children are investing even more energy into media and further holding onto their insecurities. You do not solve someone seeking validation based on things they can't help like race or weight by giving them validation, you assure them that they don't need validation because seeking that type of validation is not healthy and once the child passes a certain age, encouraging it is also infantilizing!

And it causes these weird contradictions where things like race and weight matter but they also don't. "A princess can be fat or black because weight and skin color DON'T MATTER but it's important that fat girls and black girls have a role model because representations of their weight and skin color MATTER"

agree with JNTA 1234

There is a difference between having a black or a lesbian princess and having one which is obese: Being black or lesbian is NOT an illness, it is not something anyone has control over, so yes, there should be representation for that. But being obese is an illness, and unless an underlying illness is causing it, it is also a CHOICE. A choice which shouldn't be encouraged, just like being overly skinny shouldn't be encouraged.

Again, All I hear right now is you guys telling obese people they aren't worthy of being princesses, they are only worthy of being a punchline

^I am not saying that. You're putting words in Swanpride's mouth. At this point you're just willfully ignoring half of the stuff we're saying. And who the fuck said anything about fat people being a "punchline" or anybody being "worthy"? That sounds like some weird ass prepared response you probably got from Tumblr for whenever these arguments pop up.

All Swanpride is saying is that two wrongs don't make a right. Just because we've had extremely skinny princesses in the past (which a lot of people agree is bad) doesn't mean we should have extremely fat princesses now (which a lot of people should agree is also bad).

All I'm saying is, a fat princess is fine but I really don't agree with this notion of encouraging children, who are insecure about whatever, to seek validation from media, giving them that validation only further exacerbates their insecurities. It's not solving the problem!

Have a fat princess, that's cool but don't tell fat girls "Look she's beautiful, that means you're beautiful too". You're still making a big deal about her weight and making her pay attention to her weight. How about you tell her she's beautiful regardless of how much she weighs and regardless of who ever the fuck is on TV?

Also can we use the terms fat or full figured, and not obese? There's a difference. Being obese is not good.

most of the princesses are ridiculously skinny and have caused bulimia, anorexia, etc because of such societal pressure to look like them. and overweight/obese princess would be SO nice for girls who don't fit into that mold. were girls inspired to make shady deals because of ariel? to cut off their hair and join the army because of Mulan? to take food from stranger by Snow White? NO. so this ridiculous notion that kids are gonna try to BE OBESE because a princess is obese..do you even use your brain?

^NO, Disney has NOT caused bullimia, anorexia etc. Just like how video games have NOT caused school shootings. This is the part of the argument I have a problem with, blaming Disney for people's problems, taking away people's personal responsibility and making people look pathetic! Haven't you ever heard the phrase "your health is your responsibility"?

Regardless of society (who you also shouldn't be blaming for your internal problems), it IS possible for children to want to emulate a princess's appearance, whether she's fat or skinny IF the movie plays her up as beautiful (society at large and Disney Princesses being role models are not mutually exclusive). And in that scenario no matter what, the problem is the CHILD, not Disney. If a cartoon causes YOU to give YOURSELF a disease you have a far more dire fundamental problem going on.

For you guys to encourage children to continue using a cartoon and media as a whole to validate themselves and gauge their confidence, it's messed up and freaking weird! What benefit is there from telling children to think like that?

Ariel wasn't created FOR skinny girls, she was just created. Just create a fat princess, don't create her FOR fat girls and use her to tell fat girls they're beautiful. You're still telling children to hold media in high regard and to use it to make themselves feel better. That's fucked up!

My point is, you guys aren't trying to stop the problem at the source (media causing self esteem issues), you're just encouraging an alternate version of the problem (telling children to use media to build their self esteem). Either way, you're still holding media like Disney responsible for people's self esteem (which is wrong and messed up!), just because it's a supposed positive effect, does not make it right, the source of the problem is still there!

@disnerdrobe Yeah, I read the choices, and if you read my initial comment, I didn't vote for either of them because I think a princess should always be whatever fits in the story Disney want to tell. And then I commented on some people being offended by the clarification that the poll creator used.´

But, to be absolutely clear here: I don't care whatsoever what kind of Princess Disney creates. I have no particular need for them fulfilling some sort of quota. I would be happy if they would branch out a little bit more, looking into fairy tales from different cultures, but they don't have to. I mostly want this because of the narrative opportunities this would open up.

@JNTA--- yes, it has. have you been on walt Disney confessions?? there are so many confessions from people saying that the Disney Princesses gave them severely bad body image and caused them to become anorexic or bulimic.

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@JNTA-- you also contradicted yourself in the same post. you said that no one has gotten any eating disorder from Disney, but then you say that children do want to emulate a princess' appearance. so which is it? if you think girls will want to be obese, then it works the other way as well, and HAS.

@princesslullaby Yes, I've been on that website, a place where people whine and try to blame Disney for THEIR personal problems and fuck ups. Disney does not cause problems with YOUR health, YOU do.

My thing is YOUR type of thinking is still encouraging the same thing. You're either trying to blame Disney for people's self esteem or praise Disney for people's self esteem. You're still trying to pin the issue on Disney, not on the people responsible for their OWN health. Either way, it's fucked up.

If a dude's running himself ragged at the gym and becomes a steroid addict because he's wants to look like Thor, it's HIS fault, HIS problem and HIS responsibility to get help and fix it. NOT Marvel.

If a dude starts shooting people and stealing cars because he thinks Grand Theft Auto is cool or his favorite rapper has songs about it, it's HIS fault, HIS problem and HIS responsibility to face the consequences. NOT video games or hip hop music.

And if a girl becomes anorexic or obese because she wants to look like a princess, it's still HER fault, HER problem and HER responsibility to get help and fix it, NOT Disney. Which I also said in that same post you're referring to.

It's like giving pedophiles who were molested themselves as children a pass, and blaming the pedophilic acts now on the original pedophile. No, you don't do that.

STOP holding others, especially entities like Disney, accountable and responsible for YOUR own personal issues (whether they be positive or negative). It's weird and it's pathetic. And to intentionally encourage the same type of thinking, just because it causes an effect that YOU like, is even more fucked up and pathetic.

I will absolutely hold disney accountable for upholding harmful social norms because they are a major influential corporation who is key in bringing about change. They owe it to their audiences to grow and represent as a company. They are marketing to a consumer and a large segment is being ignored. In fact, a majority.

^And that's the kind of self detrimental and entitled crap that's setting you up for failure and disappointment because Disney can't fucking please everybody and they do not owe you SHIT.

The average man is either skinny like me or fat like my Daddy but guess what? Marvel and DC ain't about to make superheroes that look like that and you know what that's fine because they don't owe me or my father anything.

At the end of the day, Disney and other corporations are gonna make the art they want to make and the only way it's gonna be harmful is if YOU take it that way and it's not their fault if you do.

If you don't like it, you can leave and take your business elsewhere. And the fact that you want a corporation to "represent" you is still a fucked up problem because the only person who can represent you is yourself.

They are not "representing" or "ignoring" anybody with their marketing, at least not in the way you think, because they don't think in the same fucked up way you do.

And when they do allow your way of thinking to get a hold of them, we end up with crappy messy ass movies like PATF, a movie that went through 100 rewrites and redesigns because making sure people wouldn't be offended took precedence over writing a good story.

But "Hey, look black girls, it's a black princess......who didn't make as much money as we wanted and ended up getting overshadowed by the next princess who was blonde, white and far more well received, probably because she's white and no one was trying to dictate to us how we should write her and her movie"

So yeah, keep guilt tripping artists and corporations on how they should do their job and telling them to pander to YOUR needs that have nothing to do with them. It works wonders

That was actually one of the dumbest things I've ever read

^And you are one of the craziest people in this club and you've spent WAY too much time on Tumblr. You used to be fun and cool, but in recent years.....I still remember that weird ass crazy ass tirade you went on about the Princes' penises. And now I can see you're still batshit crazy.

This type of shit was brewing on Fanpop before I left, and I'll admit I contributed to it myself, but I see it's still here and I'm done staying quiet. All that "Kumbaya" bullshit you went on about "how it's beautiful that we share our opinions" and it's okay to be "passionate" (there's a difference between being passionate and being crazy) is just that, bullshit.

When you know damn well you're eager to say "YIKES" and jump on somebody whenever they share an opinion that isn't 100% "inclusive", "progressive" or "sensitive" and imply that they're "racist", "fatphobic" and every other "...ist" and "...phobic" in the book, and I just love when "woke" white saviors like you speak on behalf of non-white people like me.

Sidenote: I lowkey think you're a racist tbh

People like YOU are the reason why Fanpop, Disney and pretty much everything entertainment isn't fun anymore. And now you're probably gonna either respond with another witty condescending retort or try and pacify the situation by making me look like the immature crazy one and playing it off as not a big deal. I've seen you in arguments.

I know this thread has gone off the rails but it is what it is.

You are getting way too heated my friend. Check the comments and see who keeps writing 6 paragraph comments and going on 7 different tangents here. It's not me. The penis thread was a very obvious joke that everyone was in on but if you need to grasp at straws go for it. Same for the racist card. I also haven't been on tumblr in about 4 years lol. All this proves to me is that you don't have a leg to stand on because you have to deviate from the original discussion and try insulting me about things we weren't even talking about lol

^See, right there, condescendingly acting like you didn't have a part in starting shit and you weren't being inflammatory yourself. You get under people's skin, by underhandedly implying crap about their character and then you act like it's "not a big deal" and the other person's needs to calm down, even though you're apart of the bullshit too, riling people up.

When you accuse someone of being "...phobic", imply that they think certain people aren't "worthy", using words like "dumbest" and asking them if they're "using their brain" how the fuck do you think the conversation's gonna go down? When you say serious insulting shit like that, they're gonna take it seriously. All this proves to me is that you're a condescending, manipulative, prententious "woke" SJW (I hate using this term unironically but to hell with it). Cannot stand people like that, and I hate when I let them get the better of me.

"I'm just insulting your intelligence and implying you're a bigot and a bad person. Why are you getting so heated? Calm down lol."....-_-

That shit was a joke? Sure didn't look like that. It wasn't funny, it was weird. And you sure as hell still act like a Tumblrina.

@princesslullaby You know what, I have one last thing to say.

I may have taken this conversation off the rails a few, I can take the criticism for that but at I least tried to acknowledge the points you made and be as thorough as possible (anyone who knows me, knows I can write really write long posts, that's just how I write) but you just picked and chose parts of my comments to respond to and resorted to directly insulting me. It's not that I don't have leg to stand you were just ignoring it. I try to respond with a well thought argument, most of which I still stand by, but you just responded with "that's dumbest thing I ever read" (and that's not the first inflammatory thing you said on this thread). How do you expect me to react?

But whatever, I messed up and took this to a place where it didn't need to go. I apologize foe letting this go on for so long.

Neither.
And yes, princesslullaby, being overweight is not healthy if most of the weight comes from fat (as opposed to muscle).